Gen 3 Wall Connector Installation Advice

[ghsnick!]

TBH, I'd leave it as is. Another attempt will probably result in exactly the same outcome.

If I were installing this new, I'd use ferrules to tightly hold the strands together. In fact, that's what I did.

Thanks for the advice. I could easily back them out, twist them by hand, and try again?

I don’t want to mess anything up, but it seems straightforward. The instructions didn’t call for ferrules so the electrician didn’t use them…but that’s also good advice.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Thanks for the advice. I could easily back them out, twist them by hand, and try again?

I don’t want to mess anything up, but it seems straightforward. The instructions didn’t call for ferrules so the electrician didn’t use them…but that’s also good advice.

You'd have to back them out, cut off the exposed wire, restrip, twist, and reinstall(with your torque screwdriver/wrench(yes, that's inch pounds, not foot pounds!)). At the end of that, you'd probably have wires that look very much like you have right now. I gotta assume the electrician did at least some twisting.

The reason you need to cut and restrip is those strands have already been fairly crushed. Crush them again and you'll just have a pile of cut wires.

The electrician probably didn't use ferrules because it would have cost $1 and 5-10 minutes, and time is money.

 

[Rocky_H]

The instructions didn’t call for ferrules so the electrician didn’t use them…but that’s also good advice.

Well I just got a surprise. I knew that couldn't be right because I remembered seeing it in the installation guide before. But I just loaded up the Gen3 wall connector guide, and ferrules aren't mentioned! There's kind of a catch-all statement on page 24 that says:

"Use appropriate cable glands, bushings, or fittings to secure the wiring in place and protect from
water and debris intrusion. "

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/support/charging/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

So then I checked the installation guide on the Gen2 wall connectors, and there it is on page 15:

"Ferrules (the diameter of the ferrule depends on the diameter of the power wiring and the construction)"

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/wall_connector_installation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf

So I really think this is simply an unfortunate oversight that they forgot to include the recommendation of ferrules in the Gen3 guide.

 

[Rocket_man]

No they don't include ferrules. I suspect that is just a general statement if you are splicing wires. My Hubbel 14/50 outlet has a V shaped clamp that holds the strands of wire together and allows for a very tight clamping force on the wires. The Tesla Wall Connector did not have this. I also noticed that some strands are not clamped where I want them. But with this design you just can't avoid it. Even if you backed these out and twisted them you would get this spread after you put appropriate torque on that screw. And with a twisted conductor like that, after you tighten it the first time, it will tend to relax and need to be retightened and you end up where you are now. The risk would be a build up of heat here, but I have not had an issue. Once you have it running you can try to feel for heat build up.

The electrician that landed my #6 wire into my panel used a defective breaker. After charging the car for about an hour the wall connector went dead. I didn't notice it right away. When I checked the breaker it was open. Checked all connections and everything was good. Breaker closed and I tried it again. After an hour it stopped. This time the breaker (freshly open) was so hot I could not touch it. It was defective and did its job. I replaced it and no problems since. So always a good idea to check for excess temps when you first charge your car. Remember the charger is running at 32.. 40 amps for many hours. If something is not right it will get pretty warm. So check the temps from the breaker to the connectors. Sure they will be a little warm, but if you can't keep your finger on something, something is wrong. And of course, I'm not talking about touching energized wires or surfaces.

 

[ghsnick!]

You'd have to back them out, cut off the exposed wire, restrip, twist, and reinstall(with your torque screwdriver/wrench(yes, that's inch pounds, not foot pounds!)). At the end of that, you'd probably have wires that look very much like you have right now. I gotta assume the electrician did at least some twisting.

The reason you need to cut and restrip is those strands have already been fairly crushed. Crush them again and you'll just have a pile of cut wires.

The electrician probably didn't use ferrules because it would have cost $1 and 5-10 minutes, and time is money.

The electrician didn’t twist the wires that good from what I can see.

Well, I gave it a go…definitely not perfect, but a lot better. Here’s two pictures of what they looked like when I backed them out.

I did not have enough wire to shorten it. I twisted them tightly before seating them and gently tightened to keep it centered…then once it was snug I went a little tighter and they spread like you said. Here are two pictures of the final result.

I’d say they are sitting a lot better now than they were with more wires making direct contact to the terminal…but how concerned should I be that I wasn’t able to shorten the wire and start fresh?

 

[Sophias_dad]

The electrician didn’t twist the wires that good from what I can see.

Well, I gave it a go…definitely not perfect, but a lot better. Here’s two pictures of what they looked like when I backed them out.
View attachment 920819View attachment 920820

I did not have enough wire to shorten it. I twisted them tightly before seating them and gently tightened to keep it centered…then once it was snug I went a little tighter and they spread like you said. Here are two pictures of the final result.

View attachment 920821View attachment 920822

I’d say they are sitting a lot better now than they were with more wires making direct contact to the terminal…but how concerned should I be that I wasn’t able to shorten the wire and start fresh?

You shouldn't be that concerned. It'll be fine.

 

[ghsnick!]

You shouldn't be that concerned. It'll be fine.

And lastly, could the wires ever be routed this way? I don’t plan on messing with it anymore…but if something ever needed to be re-terminated, this would be the only option.

 

[Awiner]

And lastly, could the wires ever be routed this way? I don’t plan on messing with it anymore…but if something ever needed to be re-terminated, this would be the only option.

View attachment 921448

No. The reason why is that the wall connector face has a temperature sensor in the area that the wires are routed in as shown. If you route from the bottom the temperature sensor won’t be able to sense the wiring temperature which is a safety measure. If it senses a high temp it goes into a shut off mode before potentially melting down.

 

[ghsnick!]

No. The reason why is that the wall connector face has a temperature sensor in the area that the wires are routed in as shown. If you route from the bottom the temperature sensor won’t be able to sense the wiring temperature which is a safety measure. If it senses a high temp it goes into a shut off mode before portentously melt down.

Where is the sensor? Is it in the wall mounted piece of the charger that gets pushed on? My installer was literally about to connect it the way I had the arrows until I showed him the picture.

This actually makes me feel good because I’m concerned about the connections at the charger. If something isn’t connected good and it gets hot, it will turn off before it melts or starts a fire?

 

[Awiner]

Where is the sensor? Is it in the wall mounted piece of the charger that gets pushed on? My installer was literally about to connect it the way I had the arrows until I showed him the picture.

This actually makes me feel good because I’m concerned about the connections at the charger. If something isn’t connected good and it gets hot, it will turn off before it melts or starts a fire?

Yes on the glass piece that gets pushed on. The wall connector has quite a few safety precautions built into it. Let me pull up my wall monitor app and post some stats it watches.

 

[Awiner]

Here’s a handful of what’s watched and monitored.

 

[Sophias_dad]

No. The reason why is that the wall connector face has a temperature sensor in the area that the wires are routed in as shown. If you route from the bottom the temperature sensor won’t be able to sense the wiring temperature which is a safety measure. If it senses a high temp it goes into a shut off mode before potentially melting down.

This is a bit incorrect. Page 20 of the installation guide tells you to put the giant loop of wire over the top if the wires come in the bottom, but it tells you to put the giant loop around the bottom if the wires come in the top.

The temperature sensor is looking at the actual termination block, most likely in between L1 and L2. You can see it clearly as a small metal circle with a window in it on the back side of the 'body' of the HPWC. See the third picture(depicting the relative locations of the ground and temperature sensor) in Gen3 HPWC disassembly, with overheating issues explained! and compare it to the picture just above.

Those loops are not critical to the operation. I'd wager they are intended to decrease any stresses that might occur due to wire heating/cooling since they give the wire somewhere to go. If you end up with not enough wire and go straight in, the termination block will get pushed and pulled, possibly wiggling the wires until they get loose and so on.

If you have to reroute to get more wire, I myself would leave the green wire where it is, and put smaller loops in L1/L2 at the bottom before they enter the terminal block rather than have them go straight in.

 

[ghsnick!]

This is a bit incorrect. Page 20 of the installation guide tells you to put the giant loop of wire over the top if the wires come in the bottom, but it tells you to put the giant loop around the bottom if the wires come in the top.

The temperature sensor is looking at the actual termination block, most likely in between L1 and L2. You can see it clearly as a small metal circle with a window in it on the back side of the 'body' of the HPWC. See the third picture(depicting the relative locations of the ground and temperature sensor) in Gen3 HPWC disassembly, with overheating issues explained! and compare it to the picture just above.

Those loops are not critical to the operation. I'd wager they are intended to decrease any stresses that might occur due to wire heating/cooling since they give the wire somewhere to go. If you end up with not enough wire and go straight in, the termination block will get pushed and pulled, possibly wiggling the wires until they get loose and so on.

If you have to reroute to get more wire, I myself would leave the green wire where it is, and put smaller loops in L1/L2 at the bottom before they enter the terminal block rather than have them go straight in.

Thanks! Yes, I found a layout of the temperature sensor and it appears to be located right on the terminals.

I was considering to fix it based on our previous discussion…but my biggest concerns of if wire strands eventually break on mine from being re-tightened, there’s not a good connection, or if it’s going to cause another type of issue at the terminal…I assume the temperature sensor would pick that up and turn everything off, right?

If so, I probably won’t mess with it again!

Here’s a handful of what’s watched and monitored.

What App is that?

 

[Awiner]

Thanks! Yes, I found a layout of the temperature sensor and it appears to be located right on the terminals.

I was considering to fix it based on our previous discussion…but my biggest concerns of if wire strands eventually break on mine from being re-tightened, there’s not a good connection, or if it’s going to cause another type of issue at the terminal…I assume the temperature sensor would pick that up and turn everything off, right?

If so, I probably won’t mess with it again!

What App is that?

It’s called “Wall Monitor”.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Thanks! Yes, I found a layout of the temperature sensor and it appears to be located right on the terminals.

I was considering to fix it based on our previous discussion…but my biggest concerns of if wire strands eventually break on mine from being re-tightened, there’s not a good connection, or if it’s going to cause another type of issue at the terminal…I assume the temperature sensor would pick that up and turn everything off, right?

If so, I probably won’t mess with it again!

What App is that?

If there are problems at the terminal, the temperature sensor should indeed pick that up and turn down/off the current. It will also start flashing a red LED on the front of the HPWC. I think there may also be an alert on the car's screen, but I'm not real sure about that.

 

[STLchris]

This might help. From Tesla support page. It’s a help guide for the electrician. The video was really helpful.

Load Sharing – Second Generation Wall Connector | Tesla Support

View how to create a load sharing network of second generation Wall Connector.

www.tesla.com

 

[ghsnick!]

Yes, that’s to code. It is correct for a 50A breaker. I’ve got an abbreviated chart on this page showing this. CarCharging.us

Basically Romex (NM-B) can’t handle as much current as THHN in a conduit.

Thanks again for linking that chart! So to confirm, I have a 50A Breaker - charging at 40A max. I have #6 Romex to the junction box. Then I have (2) #8 THHN for the hot wires and (1) #10 THHN for the ground wire.

Did I circle my setup properly?

 

[ghsnick!]

No. The reason why is that the wall connector face has a temperature sensor in the area that the wires are routed in as shown. If you route from the bottom the temperature sensor won’t be able to sense the wiring temperature which is a safety measure. If it senses a high temp it goes into a shut off mode before potentially melting down.

Is this 100% accurate? I didn’t think the way the wire was routed would affect the temperature sensor.

Isn’t the temperature sensor on the conductor terminals? I assume it would turn off if it got too hot. The cable routing shouldn’t matter - right?

 

[Sophias_dad]

Is this 100% accurate?

No, its 100% inaccurate. The temperature sensor is looking at the lugs(most likely right between L1 and L2), not the wire. The wire routing can be coming in from the top OR the bottom(See your post #1 of this thread) so they can't have a single sensor that would catch both. I also already answered this question in post #32 of this thread. If you REALLY want me to I'll pull up a copy of photoshop and overlay the sensor on the backplate.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Thanks again for linking that chart! So to confirm, I have a 50A Breaker - charging at 40A max. I have #6 Romex to the junction box. Then I have (2) #8 THHN for the hot wires and (1) #10 THHN for the ground wire.


View attachment 931252

Did I circle my setup properly?

Yes, sounds like it is to code.