Gen 3 Wall Connector Wire and Conduit Question

[Rocky_H]

The neutral wire ('grounded conductor')

Those are two different things--not two names for the same thing. Neutral is not ground.

 

[MN-MS100D]

I looked up the table that was referenced there. The ground wire is based on the circuit value, not the thickness of the other wires. And that's why the table was given. Up to 60A circuits, a size 10 ground wire is appropriate. You don't need an #8. Once you go over 60A circuits and up to 100A, then that needs a #8.

NEC 250.122(B) says that you must increase the EGC size if you increase the phase conductors due to anything but temperature correction or more than 3 current carrying conductors (which don;t apply to this installation)

 

[MN-MS100D]

Yes, the Neutral wire is correctly identified as the grounded conductor.

 

[DonaldBecker]

NEC 250.122(B) says that you must increase the EGC size if you increase the phase conductors due to anything but temperature correction or more than 3 current carrying conductors (which don;t apply to this installation)

I think that might be an old interpretation. If you are over-sizing the conductors for the breaker and application, you might not need a thicker ground wire.

Edit: This is certainly something you will want to double-check with the inspector. The intent might be avoid someone later installing a larger circuit breaker to match the installed wires, resulting in an insufficient ground path.

 

[Mrbrock]

I have a MY LR 7 seater on order, Gen 3 WC being delivered this week. There are a few videos and several threads discussing the wiring used. The more i watch and read, the more confused I get. What I can gather so far is that Tesla recommends 6 gauge wire and some people are running 4 gauge romex bc 6 gauge romex is only rated to 55 amps. If I run 6 gauge romex inside flex conduit does this solve that issue?

50 feet of 6/3 armored conduit is $360 at home depot. Is there a solution that involves just buying the THHN 6 gauge by the foot and installing it inside of flex conduit? Does the conduit have to be armored or Non metallic?

Sorry for the ramble but i wish there was just a simple, "this is how you should do it" instructions this way I can rest assured that whomever I hire to do the install will be following what tesla recommends. TIA!

Can you give more specifics for your installation? Where the nearest panel is located, how you plan to run wire (in wall vs on wall), etc? This will help with suggestions. As others have said, you should probably bring in an electrician and let them handle everything. Adding a new breaker to your panel and running wiring is not as simple as you may think if you’ve never done electrical work that involves running a new circuit. Plus there are lots of nuances to electric code and how local inspectors interpret them.

Regarding wire, if this install is inside your garage, I would recommend running the neutral now as well (red, white, black, green stranded thhn in conduit) and leave it capped off so in the future you can remove the HPWC and replace with an outlet If you ever move. The extra $$ now will save time and money in the future if your needs change.

 

[burn1010]

Can you give more specifics for your installation? Where the nearest panel is located, how you plan to run wire (in wall vs on wall), etc? This will help with suggestions. As others have said, you should probably bring in an electrician and let them handle everything. Adding a new breaker to your panel and running wiring is not as simple as you may think if you’ve never done electrical work that involves running a new circuit. Plus there are lots of nuances to electric code and how local inspectors interpret them.

Regarding wire, if this install is inside your garage, I would recommend running the neutral now as well (red, white, black, green stranded thhn in conduit) and leave it capped off so in the future you can remove the HPWC and replace with an outlet If you ever move. The extra $$ now will save time and money in the future if your needs change.

I do plan on hiring an electrician but as I have seen, there seems to be differences of opinion even among those who are quite experienced.
My WC will be outdoors at the end of my driveway. My panel is in the basement on the other side of the house, about 20 feet away. The 1st electrician I had come to give a quote indicated the run will go in between the joists in the basement ceiling bc they run parallel with the electrical run.

 

[Mrbrock]

So from the panel, up inside the wall into the ceiling, then somehow out of the ceiling/floor through a wall outside underground to the end of your driveway? Or do you have a wall the runs along your droveway?

If any part of the run requires conduit you can’t use NM-B (romex). You can do direct burial with tray cable, UFB or MC cable that are rated for such use. Otherwise you are looking at conduit outside so you would need conduit inside to continue the run or a junction box to switch from romex (inside) to whatever you are using outside. It would be best to have one run from your panel to the box the HPWC will be mounted to. If everything is inside then romex will likely be the easiest to run since you can just pull it through walls/ceilings with no conduit.

Your electrician should provide you with a couple options, one easiest (and likely cheapest) and one that will be the best (but costlier) long term in case you need to remove the HPWC and use the circuit for another use. Go with the electrician who will answer your questions and not just tell you there is only one way to do it.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

Those are two different things--not two names for the same thing. Neutral is not ground.

Correct. There is a groundED conductor, and then a groundING conductor - there are both two completely different things. The neutral is a grounded conductor - not a grounding conductor as its sole purpose is to return power to the panel. A grounded conductor is exactly how it sounds - a conductor (usually bare copper or green) that provides a ground for safety. Source: I’m an electrician!

I’m happy to help anyone who has questions with this - just please, please, do not try to do this yourself if you are not qualified, you could kill yourself or cause a heart murmur. Please don’t take your panel’s dead plate off if you don’t know what you are doing! Ask me (or another electrician) first!

 

[Mrbrock]

Correct. There is a groundED conductor, and then a groundING conductor - there are both two completely different things. The neutral is a grounded conductor - not a grounding conductor as its sole purpose is to return power to the panel. A grounded conductor is exactly how it sounds - a conductor (usually bare copper or green) that provides a ground for safety. Source: I’m an electrician!

I’m happy to help anyone who has questions with this - just please, please, do not try to do this yourself if you are not qualified, you could kill yourself or cause a heart murmur. Please don’t take your panel’s dead plate off if you don’t know what you are doing! Ask me (or another electrician) first!

I think you are confusing people (and yourself, at least what you are typing). You say the neutral is a grounded connector then you follow right behind saying a grounded connector is bare copper or green. I believe you mean neutral (usually white) is a grounded conductor and the green/bare copper wire is the grounding conductor.

The simplest way to explain is you have a two live conductors (usually red and black), one neutral (usually white) and one ground (usually bare/green) for 240v. Getting into grounded vs grounding is confusing and above the level of most diy people. If you can't find red, white, black and green/bare wires then there is high likelihood you need to bring an electrician in because your wiring is not standard and you will probably cause more harm than good by trying to do it yourself.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

I think you are confusing people (and yourself, at least what you are typing). You say the neutral is a grounded connector then you follow right behind saying a grounded connector is bare copper or green. I believe you mean neutral (usually white) is a grounded conductor and the green/bare copper wire is the grounding conductor.

The simplest way to explain is you have a two live conductors (usually red and black), one neutral (usually white) and one ground (usually bare/green) for 240v. Getting into grounded vs grounding is confusing and above the level of most diy people. If you can't find red, white, black and green/bare wires then there is high likelihood you need to bring an electrician in because your wiring is not standard and you will probably cause more harm than good by trying to do it yourself.

No I didn’t, re read my post please. Definitely not confused myself and I resent that comment! I said the neutral is a grounded conductor not grounding. ‘Ed and ‘ing are two different things. I do this for a living. Not trying to confuse people, but if anyone is going to enter the world of diy for electricity, they need to know this. The term is “hot” not “live” those two terms mean completely different things also - especially for 3 pole situations (if we are trying not to confuse people). “Live” refers to entire bus/panel, “hot” refers to a single conductor. This is basic per NEC. Trust me bro. Not trying to mic drop on you but please read my post carefully before you respond or try to correct a licensed electrician! We are still buddies,I’m not mad at you, just trying to prevent you from looking silly.

With regard to “doing more harm then good” if the wiring isn’t standard.. every dwelling/building in the USA has to be built as per the code - in this case, NEC. Doing more harm is not just making a mistake and then needing a professional.. the “harm” would be someone causing a fire or killing themselves due to electric shock. It’s not a “small mistake” or little harm done. We are talking about permanent damage!

 

[Mrbrock]

Correct. There is a groundED conductor, and then a groundING conductor - there are both two completely different things. The neutral is a grounded conductor - not a grounding conductor as its sole purpose is to return power to the panel. A grounded conductor is exactly how it sounds - a conductor (usually bare copper or green) that provides a ground for safety. Source: I’m an electrician!

I’m happy to help anyone who has questions with this - just please, please, do not try to do this yourself if you are not qualified, you could kill yourself or cause a heart murmur. Please don’t take your panel’s dead plate off if you don’t know what you are doing! Ask me (or another electrician) first!

Please read the red text above and explain to me how you are not saying a neutral is a grounded connector and is usually bare copper or green.

If the job of a neutral is to return power to the panel then doing it over a bare conductor would be extremely dangerous.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

Please read the red text above and explain to me how you are not saying a neutral is a grounded connector and is usually bare copper or green.

If the job of a neutral is to return power to the panel then doing it over a bare conductor would be extremely dangerous.

Your right, I got the further explanation confused. Let me clarify please, the groundING conductor is a bare copper wire or a green wire (sometimes green with a yellow stripe). The neutral is a groundED conductor- not bare- usually white (or grey in higher voltage systems.

Does that clear it up? It’s confusing I know (it’s not easy passing the state exam because of things like this). So in other words, any bare copper wire is always a ground/groundING conductor.

grounded vs grounding - Google Search

 

[Mrbrock]

That’s what I thought you were trying to say but what was typed didn’t match. Stupid electrical signals from the brain getting mixed up on the way to the fingers....

 

[andyroars]

Hello Everyone,

If anyone looking to install the Tesla wall connector and looking to buy 6/3 Stranded Romex SIMpull CU NM-B W/G Wire, I have about 65 feet cable left from the original pack.

I live in Boston and this cable is available for a very reasonable price. Local pick-up only. Shipping not possible unless you send me a prepaid label.

Please DM me if interested.

TIA
Andy

 

[Mrbrock]

The above is rated for 55A so please do not use for a 60A breaker to get 48A charge from the Gen3 HPWC. Even though it won’t draw more than 48A it is not rated to match the breaker you will install so it will not be to code. And someone down the road with try to use something that can draw 60A and could cause a lot of damage.

The wire is good for a 50A breaker to draw 40A for charging. Pairs well with 14-50.

 

[Rocky_H]

Huh. I have always just heard the very direct names for them and had not seen this terminology of "grounded" and "grounding", but thinking through that wording, that does make some sense: a conductor that happens to be "grounded" (adjective), versus something that is committing the action of taking it to ground (grounding).

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

Huh. I have always just heard the very direct names for them and had not seen this terminology of "grounded" and "grounding", but thinking through that wording, that does make some sense: a conductor that happens to be "grounded" (adjective), versus something that is committing the action of taking it to ground (grounding).

Correct! God thank you for agreeing!
Here it is as per the NEC 70: the term “bonded” refers to the neutral (grounded). It’s very confusing even for an electrician who deals with it everyday. I can only imagine how confusing it must be for anyone who doesn’t work in electrical for a living.

Grounding & bonding of electrical systems | NFPA

Here are some common questions from individuals who are just beginning to explore Article 250 of the National Electrical Code..

www.nfpa.org

 

[Rocky_H]

Well, it's much easier to know what a neutral is and what it does and also for a ground. Very different words and very clear. Why start using two other words that are nearly identical to MAKE them confusing? (shakes fist at NEC)

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

Well, it's much easier to know what a neutral is and what it does and the same for a ground. Very different words and very clear. Why start using two other words that are nearly identical to MAKE them confusing? (shakes fist at NEC)

BRO, story of my life! Don’t even get me started on iso-grounds (isolated grounds) or the complexity of 3-phase 277v/480v systems. Stuff gets bananas! The NEC was adopted 100 years ago, and some terms just stuck. I have a replica old book from the 1930s - it’s only 42 pages.. my BOOK FOR 2017 is over 500 pages!

 

[DonaldBecker]

Well, it's much easier to know what a neutral is and what it does and also for a ground. Very different words and very clear. Why start using two other words that are nearly identical to MAKE them confusing? (shakes fist at NEC)

You need to learn the terminology to read any standards document. That includes the NEC.

You might want to review and revise some of your previous posts.