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General Build Quality of Teslas

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Aww, is this your way of saying you were wrong with your statement that a Roadster is just a Lotus? :) I'm pretty sure that was the statement I was responding to. But I'll play.

Lotus shipped the gliders to Tesla in Menlo Park. The cars were hand assembled there (and another location previous to that). Yes, they *even* built them. No, they didn't have the factory in Fremont at that point in time - and they didn't have robots either. But it would be a mistake to think they didn't gain any experience.

I'm not trying to "play" any games or have a "way" of saying anything? I'm simply trying to carry on a conversation and I replied respectfully to your comment. I don't claim to being right 100% of the time, and am definitely happy to learn something new. Just like I don't gloat when I am right (unlike some posters - um-hum).

Nonetheless, I will now reply to the sensible and thread-pertinent portion of your comment.

Here is what I said in response to the poster who said Tesla has no excuse for building crappy cars because they now have 10 years of experience:

"So tell me this. When did Tesla manufacture it's first car? And what car did they manufacture 10 years ago? You tell me that, and if I can confirm it, I will be in total agreement with you." (you see - I was open to being wrong). But, I still don't think assembling 2450 cars means they "manufactured" the Roadster. Here are the definitions of manufacture:

1. make (something) on a large scale using machinery (2450 is a large scale?).
2. invent or fabricate

I still hold that Tesla did not manufacture the Roadster, they merely assembled it. That was the point of the conversation you jumped into mid-stream.

Nonetheless, I take it you agree that Tesla should be able to build a much better car than they current do because of the experience they have gained building the S and X, as well as the Roadster? (again, that was the point of the conversation)
 
Aww, is this your way of saying you were wrong with your statement that a Roadster is just a Lotus? :) I'm pretty sure that was the statement I was responding to. But I'll play.

Lotus shipped the gliders to Tesla in Menlo Park. The cars were hand assembled there (and another location previous to that). Yes, they *even* built them. No, they didn't have the factory in Fremont at that point in time - and they didn't have robots either. But it would be a mistake to think they didn't gain any experience.

From what I have heard from interviews with some of the early people at Tesla, they thought they knew how to build cars when they started the Model S, but quickly learned there were a lot of little details they quickly found out they hadn't learned in full. Though I'm sure they learned a lot from their experiences with the Roadsters.
 
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Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia

Tesla, which signed a production contract with Group Lotus in 2007 to produce "gliders" (complete cars minus electric powertrain) for the Roadster, announced in early 2010 that Roadster production would continue until early 2012. Starting one year prior to the end of the contract, Tesla put a hiatus on new orders to allow time for tooling changes at Lotus' assembly plant in the UK.

In automobiles, a glider is a vehicle without a powertrain (especially without an engine). It is generally a brand new car, but a second-hand car can also be used. The purpose of such a vehicle is typically to fit them with an engine in the after market, to create novel variations of conventional or exotic vehicles. The term is analogous to an aircraft with no engine being a glider. Tesla ordered 2,500 gliders from Lotus, which ended supplies in December 2011 when their contract expired. Tesla ended production of the Roadster in January 2012.

For Roadsters bound for customers in North America, the chassis is then sent to Menlo Park, California, for final assembly. For Roadsters bound for customers in Europe or elsewhere outside of North America, the chassis is sent to a facility at Wymondham near Hethel, for final assembly. At these final assembly locations, Tesla employees install the entire powertrain, which consists of the battery pack, power electronics module, gearbox and motor. Tesla also performs rigorous "pre-delivery inspection" on every car before customers take ownership.
 
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I'm not trying to "play" any games or have a "way" of saying anything? I'm simply trying to carry on a conversation and I replied respectfully to your comment. I don't claim to being right 100% of the time, and am definitely happy to learn something new. Just like I don't gloat when I am right (unlike some posters - um-hum).

Nonetheless, I will now reply to the sensible and thread-pertinent portion of your comment.

Here is what I said in response to the poster who said Tesla has no excuse for building crappy cars because they now have 10 years of experience:

"So tell me this. When did Tesla manufacture it's first car? And what car did they manufacture 10 years ago? You tell me that, and if I can confirm it, I will be in total agreement with you." (you see - I was open to being wrong). But, I still don't think assembling 2450 cars means they "manufactured" the Roadster. Here are the definitions of manufacture:

1. make (something) on a large scale using machinery (2450 is a large scale?).
2. invent or fabricate

I still hold that Tesla did not manufacture the Roadster, they merely assembled it. That was the point of the conversation you jumped into mid-stream.

Nonetheless, I take it you agree that Tesla should be able to build a much better car than they current do because of the experience they have gained building the S and X, as well as the Roadster? (again, that was the point of the conversation)

Again, I was responding to your post that only said the Roadster was a Lotus. It's not a Lotus. If you choose to believe that Tesla learned nothing in Roadster days, that's your prerogative. Mechanical assembly is not the same as automated assembly. But mechanical assembly is still a manufacturing activity. So calling Roadster assembly 'not manufacturing' is veering off course. Your better argument would be 'how much experience for automated manufacturing do you gain when mechanically assembling?'.

You can bring all the other conversation into it, but again, a Roadster is not a Lotus. Common misconception.
 
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I'd like to hear opinions on the build quality of Teslas versus other comparable luxury/high-end vehicles. I'm surprised by a few things on my new 2017 Model S that I didn't expect from this type of car. It looks like a lot of things were just rushed. I'm sure if you stare at anything long enough, you'll find issues.

- the seal/gasket on the left rear window wasn't pressed firmly when glued so you can see air bubbles through the glass
- the chrome trim with the Tesla logo on the trunk is already loose on one end, not glued properly
- the driver's side seal on the window occasionally lets a few small drops of water in when washing car
- the hood aligns with the left quarter panel but not quite on the right quarter panel
- lastly, condensation is leaking into the car and there is a pool of water on the front passenger and front drivers carpet

But your door handles protrude automatically and your high beams turn on by themselves! Aren't you glad tesla put money into those instead of quality control?
 
Is it fair to say Tesla has high reliabality but lower end quality?

I am curious if anyone can comment on how efficient the Tesla Factory is with examples.
I don't even believe you can say high reliability. While they don't leave you stranded that often, usually battery issues when they do, they do have a lot of warranty issues. I recall a year or so back the majority of owners saying they'd required replacement motors at some point. Add in 12v battery failures to the point it became a maintenance item for a while, door handle issues and no end of bugs they introduce and have to fix.
 
Teslas build quality are a huge YMMV.

I've been in the SvC 8 times in 2 years for my 2015 70D. Each of my visits had a "real" problem listed and some minor stuff I asked them to fix since I'm already there

Visit 1
Rear door handle failure
Volume scroll wheel replacement

Visit 2
Parking sensors failed (known issue, something about too much paint)

Visit 3
Sunroof seal leaking
Headlight/fog lights fogging, no fix
Arm rest loose (screw)
Rear drive unit shudder diagnosed, later fixed in firmware
Dash rattle
B-panel trim loose, ordered new one

Visit 4
B-trim replaced from visit 3 (annoyed, because I told them exactly the part that would need to be fixed, with pictures, and they couldn't order it in advance and made me show up again)

Visit 5
Front door handle failure
Rear tail lights hold water, replaced applique
Arm rest loose again (screw replaced again)

Visit 6
12V battery replaced

Visit 7
Fan condenser malfunction
12V battery replaced

Visit 8
Rear door handle failure

[Future] Visit 9
When they replaced the door handle on visit 8, they didn't align it properly or something. It squeaks like there's no tomorrow, so I'm holding out on a real problem before bringing it back in for this minor annoyance.


Add to this, I have slightly misaligned panels which they said the fix is very extensive (and I didn't want them taking apart my car and potentially screwing something else up), and misaligned chrome all over the car which I never complained about, as it's not a big deal (though I can imagine it'd bother someone). Also when I got the car, there were holograms all over the hood (which I never complained about), that got fixed when I got the car detailed -- but that's not really a "build" quality issue, per se.


My previous Mazda was of much better quality.
And yet people all over forums get furious if you mention telsa reliability problems. How dare you.
 
Every manufacture has limited engineering and manufacturing resources. Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Porsche/Lexus/etc focus their resources to design and produce high quality automobiles with uncompromising fit and finish. Body panels interlock near seamlessly, paint is blemish free, and no automobile leaves the factory unless it is cosmetically perfect.

Tesla focuses its resources to design and produce automobiles which cram unimaginable amounts of electrons into dense battery packs which allow those cars to have mind altering accelerations and travel practical distances between charges. They also drive themselves, somewhat.
Tesla also spends alot of time and money on features that no one needed which add cost and complexity. The could cut out the techno toys and put those resources toward quality control.
 
And yet people all over forums get furious if you mention telsa reliability problems. How dare you.

There was a guy in the uk who said the cars were so simple they didn't even need servicing. When pushed he agreed they needed at least inspecting, but he wasn't worried as his car was in every few months for warranty work and they gave it a once over each time. He couldn't see the irony.
 
There was a guy in the uk who said the cars were so simple they didn't even need servicing. When pushed he agreed they needed at least inspecting, but he wasn't worried as his car was in every few months for warranty work and they gave it a once over each time. He couldn't see the irony.
Yeah, you don't have to go in for oil changes, but if you're in even MORE frequently than oil changes for build quality issues, that's not a net-plus.
 
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Maybe this will make people feel slightly better....

This weekend I had the opportunity to checkout a nice Ferrari 360 Spider -- almost every body panel was misaligned in some way, every weather strip was bunched or too short/long, lots of cosmetic imperfections, and many issues with quality. The one thing Ferrari did right was omit the chrome trim.

The owner of that Ferrari would be envious of the Tesla build quality.