That is very true but I think the biggest benefit of letting S/X owners skip to the front is that these customers will be more forgiving of any mishaps than other mass market buyers. The fact that they already own an S/X and have also put a deposit for a 3 implies that they are happy with their tesla experience so far and likely believe in Tesla's mission. If there is any issue early on, these are the customers you want to be working with...
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That is very true but I think the biggest benefit of letting S/X owners skip to the front is that these customers will be more forgiving of any mishaps than other mass market buyers. The fact that they already own an S/X and have also put a deposit for a 3 implies that they are happy with their tesla experience so far and likely believe in Tesla's mission. If there is any issue early on, these are the customers you want to be working with...
Along the topic of FUD, here is something I've just run across that is at least peripherally appropriate and one that investors might carefully assess. From Voltaire:
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one.
Given the lack of pickups with independent rear suspensions, I could see Tesla using a scaled down version of the semi's solid rear axle. Whether that is paired with one or two motors will be interesting to see. Two might seem like overkill, but then the truck could replace a 3500 series with both high top speed and crazy low end pulling power (appropriately sized pack of course). Perhaps a configuration option?
- 2wd single motor
- 2wd with dual rear motors
- 4wd with single rear motor
- 4wd with dual rear motors
Krugerrand
Meow
I stopped believing that about people when I was 12. There are plenty of good people around and there are plenty of not good people around.
Did you watch the Dirty Money documentary on VW? You can’t tell me that the people involved in knowingly putting millions of killing machines on roads around the world are ‘good people at heart’. It would be different if we were all ignorant about what Nox does to humans and the environment, but we’re not. And then to go and run tests on monkeys and humans?!?! I think you need to revisit your idea about people, again.
Krugerrand
Meow
S/X are not the ‘flagship’ models. They are/were a means to the next step.
I agree with you on the long run. Especially once FSD will be there, and that humans will start to drive less and less.
But until there it's ROI positive, just because of marketing.
It gives prestige. Even though as I said the Model 3 is pure awesomeness. In people's mind Model S/X = Luxury. Model 3 = Affordable.
Haven't seen the movie but here's an interesting take on Black Panther which suggests where a next Elon Musk derive. (I know, a stretch, but I'm scared of the mods though mindful a number of us like science fiction.)
‘Black Panther’ Is Groundbreaking, But It’s Shuri Who Could Change The World
‘Black Panther’ Is Groundbreaking, But It’s Shuri Who Could Change The World
Krugerrand
Meow
And Tesla’s goal requires affordability not luxury. Therefore no reason to cling to the past. Let the known luxury brands drag their feet and get there eventually and make the plush, over the top interiors for the more discerning customer, while Tesla builds an empire and ploughs the way to our continued existence on the planet.
Lengthy article today from Russ Mitchell in the LA Times focusing on anecdotal reports of Model 3 quality issues. Some early owners of Tesla's Model 3 are reporting quality problems. Do buyers care? Quotes a few TMC members, some anonymous some not.
I thought this snippet, buried in the middle of the article, was interesting:
I thought this snippet, buried in the middle of the article, was interesting:
In a statement to The Times, [Tesla] said: "Tesla's customer satisfaction scores for Model 3 vehicle quality and condition are at an all-time high of 94% — the best scores we've received from customers for quality and condition ever, across all of our vehicles, during early ownership. In the rare case a customer does have an issue, we take it very seriously, working closely with each owner to proactively address it."
I have slowly come around to this thinking as well. S/X refresh should be incremental and not consume much humanX or Capex moving forward. The mission statement and focus should be on the '3/Y/truck' and TE/battery tech.
dc_h
Active Member
I think there are both. Misinformed may be wrong word, just differently concluded, based on commonly shared data. There are definitely paid haters and others who have taken short interest in tsla. Most who dislike just have absorbed negative news or start with a different bias. Treat everyone with some respect, assume good intentions, but don’t quit expressing the truth or your beliefs.
We will see. You could say the same for the Roadster.
Remember: the factoty is the product. I don't see any issue of having more models than just 3Y. after a successful 3 and maybe Y ramp.
Sorry, but this evil thought occurred to me the first time I heard of those horrible exhaust "experiments" -- is that Affen-SS?
Reciprocity
Active Member
I think there is a great deal of exaggeration on exactly what a refresh might be. From a HUD to model 3 like single slit HVAC system. What if it is only more plush interior materials and the 2170 battery pack. My thought here is that what Tesla will want to do is use the refresh as a demand lever around the time tax credits phase down to $1,875 after Q1 2019. I also believe they will continue or bring back the free supercharging for life for S and X at this time. 2170 would be as much about savings as demand. The perception is that it is better and maybe it allows for S/X P120D and 120D. Maybe they also do PM motors, but only if they are higher performance or cost less. Incremental changes could also include things like fancier wheels, more paint options and who knows what else. The goal would be to maintain the current prices but provide more value with the Fed Tax credits phasing out while creating more differentiation between S/X and 3/Y.
Conversely, the longer the wait for the refresh for replacement, the more people give up waiting for a CPO and purchase new instead.
How soon untill the X's come off lease?
I'd say they don't need to refresh until sales drop below production, at which point they should have done it the quarter before
.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I had to chance to see a Model 3 in person, and I actually do think that the S/X are the "flagship" models in terms of their outward appearance.
Model S in particular has a very expensive look, because of its long hood, wide/low stance, and overall size. The outside just says "expensive/prestigious". Model 3 has a taller greenhouse and shorter hood, which gives a friendlier, less aggressive impression. "Fun" and "approachable" are how I would describe the Model 3.
While I did not get to drive the Model 3, I have driven the S, and it drives like a flagship sedan: extremely stable and serene at highway speeds. It handles twisting back roads quite well, but its not a car that feels light.
I believe that upgrades to the S will be small but functional:
Upgraded display resolutions (if necessary), and more CPU power to make the UI snappier. Convenience features on parity with the Model 3: coat hooks, door pockets, seatback pockets, charging dock, and so on.
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
Although OT, at least this is the General thread. Yesterday my wife, who is at our home up north, had seen the trailers and told me she wanted to see "Black Panther". I told her that movie is a Marvel movie and she doesn't generally like those. She wants to see it anyway.
I'm going to make her watch Captain America - Civil War first, since that's where Black Panther and the new Spider man are introduced.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I expect in interior refresh for S/X with some cues from the Model 3. It's really going to be difficult to improve on the exteriors and keep the great aerodynamics.
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