Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Whether Elon emailed or not, citing “Emails provided to the Post” and treating that as gospel, and running with that story, is the very crux of the problem in the first place. It’s trivial to forge an email forwarded to a journalist. Harder to fake the server’s record of that email being sent. Proof of the latter, or at the very least a response from the accused, is warranted before these kinds of stories get published.

Seems many publications still have a lot to learn about responsible journalism.
 
It does seem that Tesla's culture of chaotic and disorganized management made it an easy target for sabotage, and meant that Tesla did not catch and address the sabotage as promptly as they would have in a more orderly company. (The usual clue regarding sabotage is *something out of the ordinary*, and if operations are changing chaotically every week, it's much easier for a saboteur to appear "ordinary".)
 
It's amusing to watch dozens of delusionals try to derail TSLA investors by spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and without shame, personally attack those who have served this community over the years and earned everyone's respect.

If there is one thing I learned in the last nearly 5,000 posts, it's that nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, will stop Elon, Tesla, its employees, and its investors from achieving their mission.
 
and why is that?
the fact that
- no law enforcement was called
- no 8k was filed
- no criminal charges were filed, only civil
- the defendant seems to be pretty sure about his case

all make my post look better, not worse.

And to the guy being proud of his son working at GA4: Your kid seems like a great guy, and you are surely right to be proud. But i hope you realize that the things he tells you do NOT shine a good light on Teslas manufacturing capabilities at all. what a chaos

We do not yet know the involvement of any of law enforcement. This initial lawsuit is about discovery. Tesla wants the legal means by which to discover additional conspirators. There is plenty of time for criminal charges to be filed but that is dependent on the timing of law enforcement, not Tesla.
 
So the question becomes, who planted Tripp?

Some would argue maybe it's one of the big shorts, like Chanos. This seems unlikely. Chanos is a blowhard but he's not really in the class of Tom Clancy.

I agree with the ‘take the high road’ / ‘let the facts play out’ pleas to avoid getting carried away with conspiracy theories. However, I also think that it’s important to know/understand your opponents. If you haven’t, please read this thread (and particularly the excerpt from Taibbi’s The Divide, which specifically involves Chanos) for background context: Elon Musk vs. Short sellers
 
Agree. It’s important we take the high road and not make unsubstantiated claims, as that will look just as nutty as the claims of shorts.

Just wait for the facts to come out. If Tripp is an alien sent by Martians to stop Elon from colonizing Mars, we’ll find out about it as the case evolves.

NO!
Mars wants cars !

After receiving the sample roadster that Elon so graciously sent us, we are eagerly awaiting the first shipment of Model 3's on the new BFR.

For each model 3 we will grant Elon 100 square miles. Not to exceed 50% of the martian surface.

As ordained by the supreme Martian Commander this day.
 
My point was that this thinking was asinine levels of incompetence, because the Radium Girls cases had been reported in the New York Times in the 1920s, and radiation had given Marie Curie aplastic anemia. The long-term cancer risk and other long-term risks from radionuclide exposure was *known*. But they ignored it until the 1960s.

Sort of reminds me of the people in power ignoring the global warming risk, which has been absolutely clear since the 1990s, if not the 1970s. :-(

More like the warnings from smoking. My father remembers WW I vets calling them "coffin nails" when he was a kid, but few took the dangers seriously until the 60s.

There are worse dangers than global warming. The ice core records over the last million years show the world temps sometimes spike just before they plunge into a period of glaciation. All of human civilization has happened in one of the brief warm periods in the middle of an ice age (the last 2 million years).

If the world gets warmer, that would be economically bad for coastal cities, and low lying lands would go underwater, but looking at the Geologic record, that's more the norm than the exception. The last 2 million years have been among the coldest in Earth's history except for a very bizarre period about 650 million years ago when the ice caps went all the way to the equator for a while. For many millions of years there was a shallow sea that covered the prairie states up to around the Canadian border. The shoreline shifted back and forth over time and forests along the shore got inundated and buried periodically when the sea was expanding. These trees got buried and turned into coal. It's the reason Montana and some other nearby states have so much coal.

If we end up in a full blown ice age instead (we are at about the normal length of an inter-glacial period now), All of Canada except the tallest mountains would be buried under 1500-3000 feet of ice. In some glacial periods the ice has come as far south as Kansas, but the last one played footsie with Puget Sound i(the glaciers came and went over 90,000 years leaving massive hills of glacial debris) n the west, came down into Montana, and came down further in the east covering Manhattan. Most of Utah was a lake a couple of thousand feet deep. The Great Salt Lake is the last remnant of Lake Bonneville.

Florida was a lot wider and the Mediterranean mostly dried up into a much smaller salt lake. The Southern Sahara was a massive lake/march region. The Southwestern US was quite green and lush.

In an ice age, we would gain some land nearer the equator as the oceans dropped, but most mountains and northern regions would be buried under ice. A lot of places we grow food today would be unusable. The San Joaquin Valley would become a lake, most of the Midwest would be unusable, and Canada, Northern Europe, and much of Russia would have to be evacuated. Southern California, Arizona, and New Mexico would be good growing regions, but the overall carrying capacity of the Earth would be much lower than it is now.

What we're doing killing off life in the oceans, polluting them with plastic, and using up all the fresh water will get us before any rising temperatures do. 90% of the plastic in the oceans has been traced back to a handful of rivers in Asia and Africa, the over fishing of the oceans is driven more by demands in Asia than North America (the US and Canada started managing coastal fisheries before the sea life became too depleted and poaching from Asian fishing factory ships has been a problem since). The depletion of fresh water is most acute in India and China where they have been using ground water to grow enough to feed their populations and the water is running out. Much of the surface water in those countries has been badly polluted.

Soil depletion is also a serious problem. The nutrition content in our fresh food has been dropping since the 20s. I saw somewhere that spinach grown in the 20s had something like 10X more iron than spinach grown today.

But I digress in a major way...
 
We do not yet know the involvement of any of law enforcement. This initial lawsuit is about discovery. Tesla wants the legal means by which to discover additional conspirators. There is plenty of time for criminal charges to be filed but that is dependent on the timing of law enforcement, not Tesla.

Yes, this is about discovery leading to encumbering your opponent. Criminal charges may even put some of this discovery under wraps, the opposite of Tesla's goal. My guess is that the trade secret law is no joke.
 
Last edited:
Musk also mailed the guy individually unfortunately. From here :

Luckily I haven't had many dealings with the American legal system but we've always been advised to not communicate directly with the other party, no matter how innocent it may seem.

Makes sense. Still a big risk to Tesla. It's uncertain the outside party did anything wrong so it's not a given that they can be succesfully included in the case. I would have expected for Tesla to have tried to resolve this without going public that soon.

Purchasing things (including proprietary information) which are known to be stolen is itself a crime. Whoever was pulling Tripp's strings *definitely* committed a crime as well, and Tesla is entitled to relief from what their actions did.
 
Purchasing things (including proprietary information) which are known to be stolen is itself a crime. Whoever was pulling Tripp's strings *definitely* committed a crime as well, and Tesla is entitled to relief from what their actions did.

Even if it isn't proven a crime, you could be liable in a civil court. And even before you are proven liable in a civil court, your actions could become so legally encumbered that you are unable to act.
 
I am 100% certain the lawsuit is not about collecting Tripp's money - he surely doesn't have deep enough pockets to pay the damages he caused.

Completely agreed. But even if nobody was pulling his strings, he is now toxic to everybody he touched. And it sounds like he may have reached out and touched quite a few.

I will be very interested in learning the outcome of the preliminary injunction hearing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LordAstinus
Makes sense. Still a big risk to Tesla. It's uncertain the outside party did anything wrong so it's not a given that they can be succesfully included in the case.

Wrong to receive IPO from a company and not at least contact that company and tell them; if you’re innocent of wrong doing that is.

I would have expected for Tesla to have tried to resolve this without going public that soon.

Oh, please. Have you not been paying attention? The guy gave false info to the media, that the media flogged, that affected the stock price and shareholder confidence. Elon’s going to be quiet about that? When he’s already decided to take the media on head on? *vigorous eyeroll*

MOD: “IPO”??? Did you mean to write “Proprietary Information”, perhaps?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It does seem that Tesla's culture of chaotic and disorganized management made it an easy target for sabotage, and meant that Tesla did not catch and address the sabotage as promptly as they would have in a more orderly company. (The usual clue regarding sabotage is *something out of the ordinary*, and if operations are changing chaotically every week, it's much easier for a saboteur to appear "ordinary".)

This is a valid point and certainly many of us here probably prefer organization around us rather than chaos. However, often times out of chaos comes brilliance (like the Universe).

Anecdotally, many of the most brilliant and creative people I’ve come across in life seem to have some kind of connection to chaos, either creating it in their wake or living amongst it.

And of course, pressure to accomplish something so grand as Tesla’s mission can in and of itself create chaos.

Ultimately, though, I wouldn’t blame Tesla for this breach but rather the man (and anyone/everyone else involved). Nobody and no company should have to protect against dishonest people. That we all must is a statement about mankind, not about Tesla.
 
I agree with the ‘take the high road’ / ‘let the facts play out’ pleas to avoid getting carried away with conspiracy theories. However, I also think that it’s important to know/understand your opponents. If you haven’t, please read this thread (and particularly the excerpt from Taibbi’s The Divide, which specifically involves Chanos) for background context: Elon Musk vs. Short sellers
agreed to you, and disagree that shorts aren’t capabale of such - it’s all in the book, which came from discovery during court proceedings. i don’t think we have to worry about russia on this one ;)
but, that said, let’s see what happens. this could just be an angry dude that just didn’t get his way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden
Completely agreed. But even if nobody was pulling his strings, he is now toxic to everybody he touched. And it sounds like he may have reached out and touched quite a few.

I will be very interested in learning the outcome of the preliminary injunction hearing.
yes and that L Lopez journalist” from BI seems to be, at least, on the list of those who are possibly the main contact in media. but there won’t be any repercussions there. they can say whatever they want, no matter how untrue, and walk away.
 
Trade pressures deepen as Daimler warns on sales

Screen Shot 2018-06-21 at 10.28.51 AM.png

Auto stocks sank to a nine-month low on European markets .SXAP after Daimler cut its 2018 profit forecast and German rival BMW said it was considering “possible strategic options” in light of the rising trade tensions between China and the United States.

This is just the beginning. This trend of pointing to anything but Tesla for their declining earnings is going to get increasingly ridiculous.
 
Reposting this here as well.

As jesse mentions, Chanos threw crumbs at the analysts and in exchange, used them as cutouts to attack Fairfax, with Chanos being the man behind the curtains.

As it turns out, Montana Septic has a possible Chanos connection, getting some juicy Enron bankruptcy litigation morsels thrown his way!!

ytCropper | QTR #23 - Montana Skeptic Talks About How Tesla Reminds Him of Enron

And boy, there were a lot of bottom feeders during the Enron bankruptcy

CASHING IN BIG-TIME ON ENRON'S COLLAPSE Gravy train for lawyers & accountants

So is MS one of the many cut-outs for Chanos? For someone with a self admitted modest short via “long dated puts” , he is certainly investing an inordinate amount of time in Seeking alpha and Twitter bashing Tesla. Maybe the ultimate prize he is waiting for is the elusive Tesla bankruptcy gravy train.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.