Michael,The diagram in Post #3 of this thread shows the schematic.
If I understand Vines, he is proposing something a little different.
All the best,
BG
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Michael,The diagram in Post #3 of this thread shows the schematic.
Okay, what is the status of this?
I currently have a 400 amp service. It goes to a subpanel with a 200 amp and 125 amp breaker. (I had to replace the 200 with the 120 for my solar)
I currently have a 14.5kw solar setup which feeds into a subpanel. I also have a 22Kw generator which feeds into this same subpanel. I have 2 auto transfer switches, one for each subpanel.
All the above works great.
I am now looking at adding some powerwall 2's, maybe 5. From what I gather, a gateway 2 cannot pass 400 amps, so it cannot be connected between the meter and the main panel. So seems next option is to put 2 gateway 2's in, one after each 200 and 125 amp breakers. This feeds my 2 200 amp panels, and if either were to try and draw over 200 amps, the breaker in the main panel blows so no damage to the gateway 2.
I guess I could then hook up batteries to either one of both gateways? Meaning, if the power drops, the gateways would switch off the line. So now everything is electrically connected for use? Solar can power the house or batteries? Batteries can either power the house or being charged or both?
If you are going to go down this route, I would encourage you to consider getting professional level power quality logging and analysis equipment. Generator power quality is not necessarily stable over time. Given the value of the equipment that you want to connect to the generator buying some quality power logging/analysis equipment is likely to pay dividends over time to identify failing components, it also can help to set up your system in the first place. Unlike the days of Tesla and Edison, modern equipment has lots of active components in their circuitry and the very real potential for odd feedback loops / hysteresis effects to cause significant adverse events. I suspect that many systems are likely to benefit from snubbers, autotransformers, and other devices and designs that attenuate harmonics, voltage, power, and frequency variations.@diyguy I appreciate the reply. Glad you were able to get the PW that you wanted when you did. For the (completely off-grid) user that already has grid tie class inverters, PWs, and inverter class generator, the situation is more about safely recharging the PWs during prolonged periods of little to no sun. It is fully acknowledged that these workaround proposals do not come with the blessings of Tesla, and worse yet, pose a threat to a user's warranty.
As depicted in the above approach in Post #41 would the converter and/or slave inverter sufficiently mute or correct any power quality issues? Previous experience with an older class generator and VFX3648 Outback inverter clearly demonstrated how dirty incoming AC greatly diminished the DC charging capability. That brings up an associated question. Could that Outback inverter be used as the AC -> DC converter. One drawback against this approach is the VFX3648 normally has a 20 amp AC input limit for DC charging, but maybe there is a work around for that as well. I believe the 3600 watt rating of the VFX3648 is closer to 30 amps AC output, so the transformer may be able to handle higher than 20.
Second, the incorporation of the grid-tie inverter would surely seem to give the PWs and needed ability to close off any unwanted power as they approach full charge as well as the needed tasks of syncing frequency (rate and timing).
Seems like a lot of effort, cost, etc for what? If my batteries die because of no solar to recharge, I just run my generator. The odds of this happening at all, let alone much is SO low, .... Sounds cool, but KISSIf you are going to go down this route, I would encourage you to consider getting professional level power quality logging and analysis equipment. Generator power quality is not necessarily stable over time. Given the value of the equipment that you want to connect to the generator buying some quality power logging/analysis equipment is likely to pay dividends over time to identify failing components, it also can help to set up your system in the first place. Unlike the days of Tesla and Edison, modern equipment has lots of active components in their circuitry and the very real potential for odd feedback loops / hysteresis effects to cause significant adverse events. I suspect that many systems are likely to benefit from snubbers, autotransformers, and other devices and designs that attenuate harmonics, voltage, power, and frequency variations.
It may just be me, but I think that hooking up a DC diesel generator to charge some lead acid batteries in a battery bank is one thing. An AC generator coupled to AC energy storage devices with variable and complex loads is a very different class of power control and regulation.
All the best,
BG
@diyguy
As depicted in the above approach in Post #41 would the converter and/or slave inverter sufficiently mute or correct any power quality issues? Previous experience with an older class generator and VFX3648 Outback inverter clearly demonstrated how dirty incoming AC greatly diminished the DC charging capability. That brings up an associated question. Could that Outback inverter be used as the AC -> DC converter. One drawback against this approach is the VFX3648 normally has a 20 amp AC input limit for DC charging, but maybe there is a work around for that as well. I believe the 3600 watt rating of the VFX3648 is closer to 30 amps AC output, so the transformer may be able to handle higher than 20.
Second, the incorporation of the grid-tie inverter would surely seem to give the PWs and needed ability to close off any unwanted power as they approach full charge as well as the needed tasks of syncing frequency (rate and timing).
@h2ofun with all your infrastructure, are you grid-tied? We are not, and running the generator just for loads is contrary to our goals. It may be very low odds for it happening for you with 30kw generation and 5PW storage. Our 11kw and 2PW is ALL the non-generator we have. Ultra-conservation is not new to us nor a rarity.For the (completely off-grid) user that already has grid tie class inverters, PWs, and inverter class generator, the situation is more about safely recharging the PWs during prolonged periods of little to no sun.
Am grid tied. In the winter, or even summer, I would run out of batteries in less than a day if no decent solar.@h2ofun with all your infrastructure, are you grid-tied? We are not, and running the generator just for loads is contrary to our goals. It may be very low odds for it happening for you with 30kw generation and 5PW storage. Our 11kw and 2PW is ALL the non-generator we have. Ultra-conservation is not new to us nor a rarity.
Am grid tied. In the winter, or even summer, I would run out of batteries in less than a day if no decent solar.
The generator is hooked up to two ATS. It can only engage if there is NO power, whether the grid or batteries, it cannot tell. So when it engages it disconnects all the upstream sourcesWhat happens when you run your generator? Would it run your whole house and maybe even charge the powerwalls if the generator feeds your solar generation panel?
@h2ofun with all your infrastructure, are you grid-tied? We are not, and running the generator just for loads is contrary to our goals. It may be very low odds for it happening for you with 30kw generation and 5PW storage. Our 11kw and 2PW is ALL the non-generator we have. Ultra-conservation is not new to us nor a rarity.
The generator is hooked up to two ATS. It can only engage if there is NO power, whether the grid or batteries, it cannot tell. So when it engages it disconnects all the upstream sources
Yes, at 22K, it can run the entire house with no effort.
Generator can never see the solar or it would damage it, and probably the generator, so the ATS again makes this impossible.
Wait, you are not connected to the utility grid at all?@h2ofun with all your infrastructure, are you grid-tied? We are not, and running the generator just for loads is contrary to our goals. It may be very low odds for it happening for you with 30kw generation and 5PW storage. Our 11kw and 2PW is ALL the non-generator we have. Ultra-conservation is not new to us nor a rarity.