German Court Bans Tesla from Advertising Autopilot

[persephone]

The court should make them issue refunds to everyone who bought full self driving. Then if they ever get it actually working they can sell it, or more likely sell a reduced version that is the best they can offer.

The problem is that the plaintiffs influenced the UN rules that the EU castrated the european version of FSD with. So first strongarm Tesla to render its software almost useless the sue them for it. In what world is that fair competition ?

 

[persephone]

If you really want to know what’s behind such judgements in Germany, google the word: Abmahnverein

Another reason Tesla should never have considerer building the European Gigafactory in Germany.

 

[nukequazar]

The problem is that the plaintiffs influenced the UN rules that the EU castrated the european version of FSD with. So first strongarm Tesla to render its software almost useless the sue them for it. In what world is that fair competition ?

There is no version of Tesla "FSD" that is anywhere close to full self driving. That is the problem.

 

[RaeW]

I think the German court is pretty much right, the same would happen in Norway if someone brought it up.

It's not the Autopilot term itself that is the problem, it's the context of the ads as a whole. When your ads mention "Autopilot" and "hardware capable of fully autonomous drive", it does set high expectations. You could argue the autopilot term is correct used, and the hardware can do full self-driving, however the software not mentioned in the ad can not. But it is not fully clear for an average end-user what the car actually can do.


Elon Musk however just did a classic strawman response on Twitter by dismissing the entire case, by countering just a small part of the case AS the full case. He addresses only the use of the Autopilot term (but fails to address the actual concerns made by the court, self-driving claims etc...):

Twitter

Then further he attempts to reduce the credibility of the court by shifting the focus to that a German automaker is behind this:

Twitter

A ”Trumpian” ploy,

 

[Hacov]

It's not the Autopilot term itself that is the problem, it's the context of the ads as a whole. When your ads mention "Autopilot" and "hardware capable of fully autonomous drive", it does set high expectations. You could argue the autopilot term is correct used, and the hardware can do full self-driving, however the software not mentioned in the ad can not. But it is not fully clear for an average end-user what the car actually can do.

<2 cents>
I'm not sure I agree that the hardware is capable. There has always been an argument that without a LiDAR or something similar to properly measure distances and objects, that FSD might not be possible. Musk wanted to prove everybody wrong. S far, he has not.

I seldom turn on the full self driving, such as it is, for way too many reasons, but I do use auto accelerate. Lane keeping on the highway is not great in SF Bay Area traffic because motorcycles lane split to the right of the car pool lane, and the Tesla does not leave enough room. (I really want to see a "hold left" or "hold right"" in a lane option for just this reason. Or just be smart enough to make room when needed.

And yes, I do feel like I paid WAY too much for the feature when I bought the car. Even more so now.

</ 2 cents>

 

[JohnSnowNW]

@AmpedRealtor is a long time, respected former Tesla owner

That was before he hopped on the hyperbole train to Looneyville, however.

 

[DanCar]

I think it is time for Tesla to clarify just what "Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving" mean. ...

If you start a lawsuit with Tesla the only thing that will matter in court is what Tesla says on their sales pages: Design Your Model Y | Tesla

Full Self-Driving Capability

• Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
• Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
• Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
• Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
• Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: assisted stops at traffic controlled intersections.

Coming later this year:

• Autosteer on city streets.

The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

This is Tesla clarifying and defining what FSD means.

 

[linux-works]

<2 cents>
I'm not sure I agree that the hardware is capable. There has always been an argument that without a LiDAR or something similar to properly measure distances and objects, that FSD might not be possible. Musk wanted to prove everybody wrong. S far, he has not.

I seldom turn on the full self driving, such as it is, for way too many reasons, but I do use auto accelerate. Lane keeping on the highway is not great in SF Bay Area traffic because motorcycles lane split to the right of the car pool lane, and the Tesla does not leave enough room. (I really want to see a "hold left" or "hold right"" in a lane option for just this reason. Or just be smart enough to make room when needed.

</ 2 cents>

I just nearly got brushed by a 'lane splitter' today, in fact. big harley MF (yeah, you know what MF means). I hate those idiots. they lane split (drive between 2 speeding cars on a highway) and they think they deserve that right. we gave them that due to pressure from Interest Groups(tm) and it was wrong wrong wrong!

with more cars starting to do the lane-keeping thing (and more) - we should really try to reverse this ruling and make lane-splitting at ANY speed, illegal.

sorry (well, not really) if I offend any bikers, but you guys are not doing anyone any favors when you lane split at-speed. it was only supposed to be while stopped or nearly stopped. now, they feel they have the right to do it while at 65mph+ and that's beyond stupid.

again, we need to make it illegal like it once was. if we want any form of driver-assist, we have to remove stupid noise and bikers splitting lanes makes everyone's job harder than it has to be. I say remove that 'right' and everyone is better off.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Should have gone with the name Ottopilot - after the inflatable from Airplane.

ha ha that is a good one. I was reading that just as I was thinking they should have called it CoPilot, but even that doesn't seem to fit. I only say that after having flown private planes for several years. Autopilot and Copilot mean pretty specific things to me. Hopefully some day it won't make any difference as it slowly gets better.

 

[diplomat33]

This is Tesla clarifying and defining what FSD means.

"The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience"

This line in the disclaimer seems to give Tesla an out if they don't remove driver supervision. They can just point to this line and say "the features are good, we just haven't achieved reliability high enough to safely remove driver supervision yet."

 

[Mtbdude]

I just nearly got brushed by a 'lane splitter' today, in fact. big harley MF (yeah, you know what MF means). I hate those idiots. they lane split (drive between 2 speeding cars on a highway) and they think they deserve that right. we gave them that due to pressure from Interest Groups(tm) and it was wrong wrong wrong!

with more cars starting to do the lane-keeping thing (and more) - we should really try to reverse this ruling and make lane-splitting at ANY speed, illegal.

sorry (well, not really) if I offend any bikers, but you guys are not doing anyone any favors when you lane split at-speed. it was only supposed to be while stopped or nearly stopped. now, they feel they have the right to do it while at 65mph+ and that's beyond stupid.

again, we need to make it illegal like it once was. if we want any form of driver-assist, we have to remove stupid noise and bikers splitting lanes makes everyone's job harder than it has to be. I say remove that 'right' and everyone is better off.

I always watch for and move over for motorcycles. It’s not a contest out there. We are all just people trying to get from point A to point B. Chill bro.

 

[RDiazTarbet]

A Munich court ruled that Tesla misled consumers regarding the capabilities of Autopilot. A suit brought on by the non-profit Center for Protection Against Unfair Competition said Tesla promised customers more than it could actually deliver. The court banned Tesla Germany from including “full potential for autonomous driving” and “autopilot inclusive” in its advertising materials...
[WPURI="https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2020/07/14/german-court-bans-tesla-from-advertising-autopilot/"]READ FULL ARTICLE[/WPURI]

If we remove all the cars from the highway and leave only a few that really know how to drive, then the car can really drive itself. Though, we should understand that while there are other non-autonomous cars out there, we should be paying attention (as Tesla requires). The autopilot system in a plane would be equivalent to the autopilot in Tesla, with the difference that for planes you have a crew of people directing traffic, while on the roads it is still the wild West

 

[Brando]

You decide
Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

Rumor is the the name will be changed to:
KEIN AutoPilot

 

[Battpower]

I considered buying a Tesla for a year while I did my research

In this day-and-age I think 'buyer beware' is more appropriate than ever. We are subject to non-stop bombardment with defendable but easily mis-interpreted claims for pretty well everything.

I'm not a cynic by choice, but I don't want to suffer because of my own gullibility if I can avoid it. Choosing a set of compromises intentionally is a lot more comfortable to live with than being tricked into ones without realising it.

You decide
Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

Rumor is the the name will be changed to:
KEIN AutoPilot

So.... Is a 'crash' an 'accident' and vice versa?

Reading the stats presented makes the forced cynic in me question their choice of every word used.

 

[ChrML]

If you start a lawsuit with Tesla the only thing that will matter in court is what Tesla says on their sales pages: Design Your Model Y | Tesla

No, any misleading information communicated by Tesla directed at customers counts as misleading marketing. It is illegal in most of Europe.

 

[Collier007]

I think the complaining about Elon being a fraud is absolutely ridiculous. We now live in a world where a child growing up today finds it completely normal to ride in a extremely fun to drive electric car as a primary vehicle and can expect to never drive a car powered by fossil fuels during their lifetime. That is absolutely incredible!

Is TESLA a perfect company? Absolutely not!

But calling Elon a fraud trying to make a buck? Give me a frickin break.

 

[ChrML]

I think the complaining about Elon being a fraud is absolutely ridiculous. We now live in a world where a child growing up today finds it completely normal to ride in a extremely fun to drive electric car as a primary vehicle and can expect to never drive a car powered by fossil fuels during their lifetime. That is absolutely incredible!

Is TESLA a perfect company? Absolutely not!

But calling Elon a fraud trying to make a buck? Give me a frickin break.

Most people are not saying Elon or Tesla is a fraud. However they do a lot of misleading marketing. They should be better at communicating the actual features today, not what Elon thinks will happen in 1 year. They don't need to oversell the product, it's good enough by itself...

 

[drdumont]

Major issues are the EV Haters in general, the Tesla Haters specifically, and then Elon (and surely there are others in the organization who have input into what is said, promoted or prophesied). But Elon is the spokesman, and is gonna draw most of the fire.

Elon, from his bully pulpit, tends to shoot himself in the foot from time to time. The EV and Teslas haters speak from ignorance, FUD and likely some financial reasons. I can see why a petroleum dealer might have anti EV opinions, for example. And then along comes Elon with some dodgy pronunciamento upon which the haters immediately jump.

Elon is an enthusiastic promoter of Tesla, but I do think sometimes he should stop and think before posting, providing ammunition to the enemy.

 

[WdstockWizard]

IT'S ABOUT TIME!

Musk has been lying for years about the capabilities of AP and FSD. He continues to lie to this day, most recently claiming level 5 autonomy by year's end. How can you claim level 5 by year's end when you haven't even properly achieved level 3 without killing a bunch of people? He wants (only idiots) to believe that he will go from a flawed level 3 implementation to a full level 5 implementation inside of 5 months.

Musk promised an autonomous "coast-to-coast" drive in... [drumroll]... 2016!

Yes, folks, the incredible and deceitful Elon Musk promised 4 years ago wheat he still cannot deliver today, yet he promises even more by year end. When are you people going to regain possession of your brains and stop buying into the endless lies and nonsense? Maybe he should focus on making a decent quality car that doesn't require 100 service visits the first year.

This guy will say anything if it means making a buck. He once bragged about pushing marketing claims to the legal limit just before the State of California forced Tesla to stop falsely advertising an "after savings" price in its design studio and making it difficult to see the actual price. That happened back in 2012 or 2013.

Musk is a shyster who is conning his customers into thinking something that will not happen for years to come. He wants you to pay for a feature he knows he cannot deliver. For all you folks, I have a few bridges to sell you here in Arizona. Apparently you don't mind throwing your money away, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

...and yet Tesla stock closed at $1,500 / share on Friday, up only 300% since March. He must have a lot of folks convinced there's a valid business model here somewhere.

 

[drdumont]

...and yet Tesla stock closed at $1,500 / share on Friday, up only 300% since March. He must have a lot of folks convinced there's a valid business model here somewhere.

I reckon so. I've paid for my battery and interior upgrade and more, thanks to profits from the stock. Buy low and sell high!