Get a grip people! What all the complainers are missing.

[AustinPowers]

The problem might be size rather then cost:

The Model 3 is a smaller car and the fact that the driver (and front passenger) is moved forward (thinner dash) probably doesn't help either.

True, but who said a HEPA filter had to be that big. Elon also tried to make a statement. Technically I am sure a HEPA filter could fit in the Model 3 as well. I mean, we have even got one in our vacuum cleaner, which is definitely smaller than a Model X, and even a Model 3

 

[landis]

While the EV1 was the trickest vehicle made in America up to that point, it was no Bolt. Nor was it GM's first EV

Nor was it GM's EV technology development.

As you say, it was the 'production' version of the Impact concept car.
Which by the way was in many ways a generation before the tzero.

AC Propulsion tzero - Wikipedia

Tesla did a better job getting the tzero to production as the Roadster, then GM did refining the Impact into the EV1. The results speak for themselves.

I remember pictures of the Impact (in popular science I believe) from before GM bought the Impact concept from AeroVironment.when it decided to attempt the EV1. There are no obvious improvements in the EV1. Given this failure to envison successful production, IMHO it is completely fair to say "GM attempted to kill the electric car". Wouldn't surprise me if is was premeditated.


And BTW, AC Propulsion shows up in the enabling technology of the Impact:

History of EV1

The 1990 GM Impact electric concept car.

In January 1990, GM chairman Roger Smith demonstrated the Impact, an electric concept car, at the 1990 Los Angeles Auto Show. The car had been developed by electric vehicle company AeroVironment. using design knowledge gained from GM’s participation in the 1987 World Solar Challenge, a trans-Australia race for solar vehicles, with the Sunraycer (pic. on left), which went on to win the competition. Alan Cocconi of AC Propulsion designed and built the original drive controller electronics for the Impact, and the design was later refined by Hughes Electronics.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yeesh! You want to know why Elon feels the need to anti-sell the Model 3? It's because of the delusional personalities that frequent these boards. You guys have built up the model 3 so huge in your minds that he is sure to miss expectations even if he delivered a car with all the features of the current Model S. It's lose lose for him. With expectations among some that the model 3 will be superior in almost all regards, it can't be easy to continue selling the Model S.

Here is what you are missing.
#1. The best affordable EV available for at least the next 3 years. At $35k it is cheaper than the Bolt, i3 and set at a fair premium to the Leaf. At that price point, it will be significantly faster, safer and infinitely better looking. Yes it can and will get more expensive depending on options, but they are either worth the cost or you shouldn't order them.

#2. It was never supposed to beat other entry level cars in old school thoughts of luxury. The Model S doesn't even come close in those regards. It's closer to a Hyundai than a Lexus. The luxury comes from silent, pollution free driving with new luxury features unavailable in other cars. i.e. Control most functions from the display.

#3. Lack of gauges, dials, buttons and air vents is NOT a bad thing. Do you guys decorate your bedrooms like that? Nicest part of the i3 is how relaxing the interior is designed. A HUD would still be appreciated for speed and directions and may end up being available. But it's not a deal breaker.

#4. Finally it's not supposed to be a Model S competitor or replacement. So many people are whining that it won't offer the same space, functionality and premium options of the Model S. Fantastic I say. I waited in line for a 3 series sized Tesla with a reasonable price tag. Yes, I would have preferred a hatchback, but I can appreciate the appeal of more passenger space and comfort. If I were to join the whining, it would be to complain that if anything the car is looking too big!

Elon isn't reading this forum and reacting to it. This forum does not have enough members to provide an accurate slice of reservation holders.
Just like with the Model X, Elon is doing what he wants and taking responsibility when its not correct. He is a true businessman that got where he is by NOT doing what is expected/obvious of him as a CEO. He is not mainstream.

Mainstream = no EV ( 15 years ago ). ( Its already been tried and failed - EV1? ).
Mainstream = don't build your most expensive product first.
Mainstream = listens to the majority opinion
Mainstream = stop with all of the autopilot talk
Mainstream = you can't produce re-suable rockets in 3 years
Mainstream = stop all of this talk about mars
Mainstream = you can't produce "free" supercharging across the country for all of your EV's
Mainstream = you have to use dealerships to sell your products.
Mainstream = you can't produce a usable EV Semi-Truck
Mainstream = you can't produce your EV batteries in-house
Mainstream = you cant produce the quickest 0-60 timed automobile sold on the market today.
Mainstream = you can't produce an EV with over 300 miles of range per charge
Mainstream = the gigafactory would be just too expensive and non effective

After each statement above put "Or else someone else would have done it".


Future Mainstream = you can't produce a car that will be fully autonomous that can drive from Cali to NewYork - This year
Future Mainstream = you can't get solar on over 50% of all homes in the US
Future Mainstream = you can't get a human to Mars
Future Mainstream = you can't transport people via EV tunnels underground.

I think you get my drift. Popular opinion isn't what Elon uses to make decisions and its being proven over and over over time.

 

[alexmd2]

Lots of people complained about the lack of buttons on the original iPhone. People still complain now about the lack of headphone jack. Very soon they will start moaning the home button and the lightning port. Some people are just so afraid of change, other embrace it. I am sure when the first disgusting creature crawled out of the ocean on the beach 240 million years ago others that had stayed back bitched all day.

 

[habanero69]

We have a different view of what is appealing. I find Lexus' interiors gaudy and ugly with far too much going on...

TOO much IMO... YMMV

 

[daniel]

EXACTLY. What if I want a sexy fast electric car, but I don't want it to be filled with other high-tech unreliable toys and touchscreens?

Then buy a Tesla Roadster. A used one comes on the market from time to time. It's sexy, it's quick off the line (only a PxxD Model S and a few supercars are quicker), and the only high-tech thing in it is the electric drivetrain. While not as reliable as a Honda or Toyota, it is pretty reliable. It does have electric windows and remote door lock/unlock, but not much else. And it is FUN FUN FUN to drive! For passing and merging it's the bomb. And it's much quicker than the early (non-performance) Model 3 will be.

IIRC, a Zap is a poorly built Chinese enclosed tricycle used for riding around the neighborhood. I forget what that kind of vehicle is called, but they are not intended for actual travel and are limited by law to something like 25 miles per hour? To drive one faster it needed to registered as a motorcycle. Sort of like a golf cart with less stability and no brakes.

Partly right, partly wrong. Here's the straight dope:

Yes, it was a poorly-designed and poorly-built Chinese enclosed tricycle. The dealer I bought mine from drove every unit himself, personally, for a couple of hundred miles before selling it, so that he, personally, could fix all the problems that turned up in those first 200 miles. He did a fine job and I had few problems with mine after that.

The stock version went 20 miles on a charge, but I got mine with an aftermarket battery pack that doubled that exactly.

It was indeed registered as a tricycle. There was no other option, at least in my state. It was not a NEV and therefore the only limitations on its speed were the legal speed limit on the road and its own under-powered motor. It would go 35 mph on level ground. Faster downhill and slower uphill. I once had it up to 50 mph on a very moderate downhill. And once it slowed to 6 mph on one of Spokane's steepest uphills. Some people put bigger tires on the Xebra, which slowed the acceleration but increased the top speed. I had to take a trike test to get a trike endorsement on my license, which was funny, because it drove just like a car, with steering wheel and brake and go pedals. Taking the test was fun.

It had excellent brakes, and stopped faster than any other car I've ever driven (speed being equal). They were not power brakes. They just had outstanding grip. And it was extremely stable due to the weight of batteries (lead-acid) down low, though the time I had it up to 50 mph it scared me and I only ever let it get that fast the one time.

It rattled, and the seat belts (lap only) were just bolted to the fiberglass frame as an afterthought. In an accident it would have been a death trap. It's main safety feature was that it didn't go very fast. There's a lot more energy in a collision at freeway speed, and the Xebra couldn't go on the freeway.

Everybody who saw me driving it loved it. Kids shouted "Cool car!" as I drove past. People took pictures of me with their cell phones and gave me thumb's-up signs. For four years it was my daily driver. I frequently drove from my home in the suburbs all the way downtown and back (about 30 miles r/t) and sometimes a bit farther. I probably drove the Prius about once a month. The Xebra was more fun to drive than any car I had ever owned before that time, and it was all-electric at a time when the only all-electric car you could buy was the Xebra, or a NEV, or a ten-year-old used RAV4EV, if you could even find one, because the RAV4EV, which was built at the same time as the EV-1, was such a good car that the people who owned them hardly ever sold them.

The Xebra was a 4-door 4-seat sedan, and yes, I occasionally had 4 people in it, and though its acceleration was slower with 4 people, it was perfectly serviceable. It was, as I said, my daily driver and my primary car for 4 years, until I got the Tesla Roadster and sold the Xebra. One of its worst problems was that it hit more potholes, because the three wheels meant three tracks, compared to the two tracks made by a 4-wheel car. But it was extremely maneuverable, so I could often avoid them. The front suspension was terrible, so I had an aftermarket suspension installed, which increased the maintenance from zero to greasing one zerk twice a year.

It was a POS and I loved it.

 

[sandange]

Those obsessed with needing a HUD
Trevor's video reviewed an after market hud

for those interested

 

[ThosEM]

Why lobby for a HUD on the Model ☰? Why not lobby for one on the Model S or X first?

 

[daniel]

I've never had a car with HUD. But if I'm using my Garmin GPS in the Prius at night, it makes a reflection on the windshield, which I find distracting. With the caveat that using one might change my opinion, I would pay extra to NOT have a HUD. I'm glad the Model 3 won't have one, assuming that's the case. I take everything being said about the Model 3 by anyone other than Elon with a grain of salt, and even he can change his mind.

 

[McRat]

I've never had a car with HUD. But if I'm using my Garmin GPS in the Prius at night, it makes a reflection on the windshield, which I find distracting. With the caveat that using one might change my opinion, I would pay extra to NOT have a HUD. I'm glad the Model 3 won't have one, assuming that's the case. I take everything being said about the Model 3 by anyone other than Elon with a grain of salt, and even he can change his mind.

I've had several cars with HUD, and still have 3. I don't like them for data reporting since they are a distraction and I turn off that function most of the time. I'd rather look for rocks, potholes, and foreign sharp objects when I scan down there. Human eyes have high resolution in about a 3° cone. This why they tell you keep your eyes moving. Peripheral vision is great for detecting motion, but is terrible for reading data. You cannot focus in the distance and HUD at the same time. It's two glances. You can look at the roadway and in the distance without changing focus. Especially for older drivers, the HUD might not work well with prescription glasses, especially polarized.

HOWEVER - The most helpful HUD I've seen is the Collision Warning HUD found on 2 of our cars. When there is an AEB threat, 6 bright red LEDS appear across the windshield like brake lights, covering both your focus cone and peripheral. It's not subtle, and will make you jump first time you encounter it. It is augmented with sound and and some models, vibration in the driver's seat. If you do not react to them, it will first enhance braking boost, then apply the brakes with authority. It's extremely effective and will catch many potential threats before you can.

This would be an excellent add on option to any car.

 

[dhanson865]

The problem might be size rather then cost:

The Model 3 is a smaller car and the fact that the driver (and front passenger) is moved forward (thinner dash) probably doesn't help either.

So? You just use a smaller filter in the smaller car. Larger than the small one he showed and smaller than the larger one he showed.

It's not rocket science, it's just a pleated filter.

Also remember they simplified/reduced the size of the dash and reduced the cargo area in the rear to make the passenger capacity larger. The filter just eats into the frunk space at the worst it doesn't require a major engineering effort.

 

[daniel]

... Especially for older drivers, the HUD might not work well with prescription glasses ...

Hmmm. I have intra-ocular lenses. I wonder if that would affect my experience with HUD. Probably not an issue if the speculation is correct that the Model 3 won't have it. Effectively the lenses give me close to 20-20 vision but I'm farsighted and need reading glasses. Out of doors and for driving I don't need glasses, after having worn them all my life for myopia.