TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Get ready for a *lot* of crap on Forbes

Discussion in 'Model S' started by ZachShahan, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    497
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL / Wroclaw, Poland
  2. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    Is this the guy who lost the bet, but wouldn't eat his hat?
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    yep, and subsequently blocked a bunch of us from his twitter account when called out on it. I though Forbes would be a bit more particular who they allow write for them.
     
  4. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,409
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Well, that's unfortunate. It would appear clear that Forbes cares nothing for integrity.
     
  5. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    Agree....Forbes should have more class (and smarts) than associating with this worthless scribe...you lie down with dogs...

     
  6. TNEVol

    TNEVol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Brush Creek TN
    Think about the opportunity to put that in a comment to his Forbes articles maybe as a parting shot.
     
  7. JER

    JER Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    His argument was that the lack of a rear-facing radar and/or narrow field camera meant Model S could not determine if a lane change was unsafe due to fast-approaching traffic from behind (out of ultrasound range). To be fair, that is actually true.

    Autopilot does of course place this responsibility (and others) upon the driver; it's an aid, not a substitute. Bertel now says this doesn't qualify as "automatic." So, I' guess he's conflating automatic with fully automatic, for his convenience.

    It sure looks to me a lot more automatic than doing everything manually.
     
  8. green1

    green1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,116
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    He specifically said at the touch of a stalk, and that's exactly what it does. He's the one that specified the level of autonomy, and it's exactly what Tesla promised, and exactly what Tesla delivered.
     
  9. JER

    JER Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    No argument there. The requirement to check the lane's safety further back to qualify as "automatic" was, as I already stated, only Bertel's insistence.
     
  10. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    2,521
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Forbes has a comment system. I've used it a lot over the years. I don't know if he can block that.
     
  11. Taipan

    Taipan Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    France
    #12 Taipan, Jan 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
    The author can "rig" their comment system with the "top comment" feature to bury the annoying ones, especially since you must then click on each of them to just display and read it.
    Worst comment UX, iuam.

    Now they also seem to face a major backlash from tech-centric readers since they fully blocked access to users of Adblocks & co. in December, many tweeting "Screw you Forbes, u just lost another reader" in light of their last summer delivery of malware in ads.
    You must turn off Adblocks to "experience an ad-light version of Forbes.com", with approx 20 ads per page similar to ad-farms posting "15 most dangerous airports/animals/cars/foods/genitals in the world".

    IMHO their audience figures are going down the drain, sad for they have a bunch of talented contributors in Tech/Games like Erik Kain, Jason Evanghelo or Paul Tassi.
     
  12. Fuzzy_Dice

    Fuzzy_Dice New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Japan
    No. His argument (and mine) is that when you call something "autopilot" it should say what's written on the tin. If the car can't guarantee the safety of its occupants while changing lanes, because it can't see over its shoulder (which a proper automated or autonomous car can do) then don't call it "autopilot". It's misleading and will give a bad name to automated or autonomous driving. That's all. Is autopilot cool? Probably. Is it automated in any way? No. Adaptive cruise control and lane keeping don't make a car automated. They've been around for a while and they are just what you call "active safety features". Key word is safety. If Elon had had the roadster with these features several years back he'd have called them autopilot or starship enterprise or something. No question the man is a marketing genius, but that's not what Bertel's bet was about. Don't pretend like you're not understanding his point. That is bad faith.
     
  13. green1

    green1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,116
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Just what do you think an aircraft autopilot (which this is named after) does?
    This does everything one of those does, there's absolutely nothing deceptive about the name, it's actually an amazingly good comparison. If you think autopilot doesn't require pilots, please explain why there's always 2 of them on every flight?



     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    Lots of people have issues with the name. And Musk may have oversold it's on-ramp to off-ramp capabilities, but Autopilot != Autonomous.
     
  15. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    I'd suggest you avoid bets with bookies in the US. There likely would be serious consequences of attempting to change the stated terms after the bet was lost.
     
  16. green1

    green1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,116
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    But why does anyone have issues with it? it describes exactly what the system does, and I can not, for the life of me, come up with a better name for what it does. It's an amazingly accurate comparison without making up some ridiculous term like MB did which tells nobody anything.

    Nobody gets on an airliner equipped with autopilot and expects to see the pilots in the back drinking with the passengers, everyone assumes the pilot still needs to be in control of the aircraft. So why would they think the same term should mean something completely different if applied to a car???
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    I bought my car after doing extensive research, so I knew I wasn't getting an autonomous car. I knew production autonomous cars are a decent ways away.

    That being said, "AutoPilot" for the non-aviation crowd (me included) implies more than TACC + steer assist. And Tesla did more than steer assist, the car steers and keeps you centered.

    I think it's a combination of calling it AutoPilot (for us non pilots) and the way Musk oversold it that people thought the car can do more than it can. "No hands on wheel", remember the rumors around that? And the no nag? (well they killed that last one, but still).


    I have no problem with AP, actually I love it and use it on trips all the time. But like I said, I can see why some people might feel jipped.
     
  18. green1

    green1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,116
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    You don't need to be a pilot to get that autopilot isn't autonomous. Do you get on an airplane and expect the pilots don't need to pay attention and can drink in the back? I don't know anyone who thinks the pilots don't need to pay attention, so why would you think that it's different in a car?
     
  19. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    I'm confused, are you implying that pilots don't nap in first class and drink in the back? ;)

    But seriously, we're going in circles. I think the name AP + the way it was advertised boarders on misleading. At the same time, anyone who spends 5 minutes doing their due diligence on a car purchase, would know that Autopilot != Autonomous.
     

Share This Page