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Get some Sense...

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by SabrToothSqrl, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    So, obviously I'm a big data nerd right? I have an EcoBee3, WeMo, and all sorts of crap.

    I wanted to know more about my kWh usage, but the TED always seemed expensive and a hassle to install in my already stupid crowded breaker box. And you have to wire every little circuit.

    My friend who was also looking at a TED because his electric bill was through the roof, sent me this, and... since i love me some data... i bought one.

    http://www.sense.com/

    Unpacking the thing felt like unpacking an apple product. Like someone spent alot of my $250 purchase price on designing the thing that will be thrown out within a month or two of it working. Or sooner if you're like that.

    I got it installed myself, fairly easy. 3 wires + 2 clampy things.. (ammeter?). anyway, luckily it fit inside my breaker box as it's flush with a wall and adding anything outside it is a HUGE hassle. (not looking forward to wiring up the wife's 14/50).

    anyway, install went smooth w/my iphone. I was getting data! real time watt use. I'd like to be able to export logs in the future, especially since my car likes to drop from 40 to 30 amps at random and my power company says 'it's all within spec'. maybe this thing can show me amps + volts down to the second resolution? well, maybe because not yet.

    I tried to login from my ipad then. No dice. what the heck? Either I signed up with the wrong email so it was not letting me in, or who knows. So, I managed to accidental while poking around sign out of my iphone. awesome.

    I emailed support, and after spending $250+ shipping wasn't exactly thrilled that email was the ONLY option... then waiting until the next day for a response. I know it's not open heart surgery, but I like my fixes before the thing breaks... right?

    support did get back to me with a 'try again' email... (not really happy there)... but somehow i was able to sign in from both devices last night around 8 or so... no idea why. support doesn't know, but they are looking into it anyway (maybe support is good)?

    So far it's detected zero devices, so my house is one pool of electric suck. Hopefully within a few days it will detect some gizmos and report back.

    I understand their position on self-learning vs. me trying to train devices, but I'm one of the (few?) who actually doesn't mine training the gizmo to know X = living room ceiling fan...

    in any case, as I get more info I'll post up. I figure at least some of you are also data nerds, and might want a real review before dropping $250 or so.. so.. ask away!

    So far, since this is a 'small'/new company/product, I'd like to note the following that if I was working on it, I'd like...

    1. needs a reset button ON the device. If you move or sell the device (or buy used) you need a way to make it yours
    2. I'd like to know real time volts along side the watts... or show me all 3? or log all 2 actually (the 3rd is just multiply them)
    3. needs a web login. the iphone/pad is great, but who doesn't love a good CSV loaded into excel? Sure some would rather go on a hot date on a friday night, but curling up with a good multi layer select and sort can be just as fun ;)
    4. the packaging that looks so crisp/clean was actually a bit of a pita to open... knock that off.
    5.a support PHONE number please. some of us like things now... see: Drive-Thru
    6. let me train IF i want. make it my choice, do all your machine learning anyway, I'm sure SkyNet is in here somewhere anyway

    Hopefully this gizmo will help me get an even more accurate monthly cost to my car. I installed a new heat pump (went from propane) only 2 months after the car... so my kWh has always been jumbled. This should unjumble it. what a fun word.. jumble :)

    And if anyone at Sense is listening... I'm more than willing to talk some Sense for money. :) Same with Tesla. lol I'll double my efforts to get more buyers ;) (like that would ever work)...
     
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  2. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Said friend determined that his dual stage heat pump was wired incorrectly, and never went to stage 2 before engaging AUX heat. Causing AUX heat (toaster) to run more than it should, resulting in stupid high electric bills. It has since been fixed. Said friend does not have a Sense or TED. (yet).
     
  3. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Nice concept, but not baked yet.
     
  4. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    #4 gregd, Nov 17, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
    Very interesting; thanks for posting.

    I'm concerned about how it connects to your WiFi network without needing to be configured with the keys. I'm guessing they're using some sort of WPS hook into the router, which is a huge security hole. I have mine disabled. Without a direct user interface of some sort, you need to "lower your shields" for a while to get some sort of connection, then get in and lock things down again. I presume that's an option; just be careful and don't leave your back door open.

    Also, the recently highlighted risks for IOT devices in general. Not to be too tin-foil-hat about it, but consider that Sense probably knows when somebody's at home or not. At least, it has no way to control the devices in the house.

    Agree with Garlan... Interesting, but not fully baked yet.

    EDIT: looking at the competition (SMAPPEE), perhaps Sense also has a Hotspot configuration page. If so, that's good too, but again be sure the hotspot gets disabled after configuration is complete.
     
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  5. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    To setup WiFi; you turn off power to the sense. then open Sense App, and 'get started' turn on sense via breaker.

    The iPhone connects to the Sense, which polls for wifi, you then have to enter your wifi password into the app on iphone, which is sent to the sense. that's how you set it up, it uses some form of NFC when your near it (like 2-3 feet)

    I don't think it's bluetooth because you don't pair it? so I'm not sure what it's actually using to communicate from phone to sense.

    Yes, i'm 99.9% certain this devices knows when I am home, as does my EcoBee as it has motion sensors, as does my 12 camera security DVR system, and even my internet connected garage door opener...

    Anyone wishing to meet me while I'm home and attempt harm will be met with appropriate measures. ;)

    24 hours in and it's Identified "2 unnamed devices" in addition to the large pool of use.

    So, it's showing me that it sees 2 things, and I get alerts when they go on/off (customizable), but it doesn't know what they are... since I'm not home (someone else is), I can't really coordinate the alerts easily to actual events. Hopefully tonight I can make some sense out of it. (lolz)

    Correct, this cannot turn anything on/off, it's not connected in that fashion. It can only listen...
     
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  6. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    It's probably hosting an ad-hoc network over WiFi, which is what the phone is connecting to. I don't think NFC can be used for this sort of thing. Just be sure the device disappears from the list of WiFi networks once it's configured. Needing to be close to it is not sufficient for security purposes (antennas can be magical).

    The risk of harm isn't confined to you while you're home, it's also to your property when you are not. Not being paranoid, just aware.
     
  7. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    That's what 12 cameras and insurance is for ;)
     
  8. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    I looked at their website, this looks very cool. Let us know if it works out, I might be interested in picking one up too.
     
  9. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    It does look interesting. But I doubt it would be able to tell me things like which if my 3 identical HVAC units is running and how much each uses over a time period.
     
  10. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Supporting Member

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    I'll be curious to check back on this in a few months when you have more data, and when the Solar version is fully baked.
     
  11. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    yea, i wonder, especially considering how often mine likes to drop from 40 to 30 amps, or if I set it to 35 or run the HVAC... then what will it do?

    only 1 way to find out!

    and when the wife gets her 3... then what? Also I sometimes run my house on a generator, so I plan to turn this OFF during those times as well.
     
  12. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    check out the EcoBee3. that would be able to, but you'd need 3 of them I think...
     
  13. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Plugged in Tuesday around 7 PM, and around noon today it's ID some things. For the life of me I can't figure out Device 1/2. Motor just showed up today, maybe a well pump? or heat pump or heat pump water heater? all use motors...
     

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  14. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    Does it give you a historical view on when the items were on and off? (similar to Nest's usage history, hour vs. on or off)
     
  15. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Yes, it does.

    I also got an email about EV charging at home from Sense today... not me specifically it was a newsletter type thing.

    This appear to be my well pump, but I will be able to check later tonight. You can elect to have alerts, etc.

    I"ll just leave a faucet on and listen in my basement for the relay that runs the pump.
     

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  16. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Over the weekend it's now detected:
    1. fridge
    2. fridge light
    3. garage door opener (1/4)
    4. heat pump
    And some other stuff

    there are now so many devices it doesn't fit in a screen shot, but it's learning.

    I learned that lights in my fridge are 3x40 watts = 119 watts showing on Sense... almost as much as running the fridge!
     
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  17. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    This is very interesting. I read the information on the Sense website. Can you post a photo of the device showing how it is mounted in your breaker box? Thanks.
     
  18. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    #18 SabrToothSqrl, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    Well, it's mostly mounted with zip ties against the large wires at the top. The breaker cover is on, else I'd get you a pic. It's about the size of 2 decks of cards, maybe a hair bigger, but it did fit inside my breaker. If my breaker was on the wall instead of in it, I would have mounted it outside the breaker. I'm impressed with what it's found and is able to reliably detect when on/off. I can now tell when the fridge door is open lol.

    First it said 'unnamed motor' then it changed to 'unnamed pump', which I was able to edit to be my well pump. after some testing.

    I also have 2 propane furnaces in separate buildings... it has a lot of learning to do...
     

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  19. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    I'm tempted to pull the trigger on this, but at the same time... I feel there are so many unknowns.

    What happens if Sense learns a device (let's say a TV), and next week I replace said TV with something else?
    What if I have CFLs, incandescent and LEDs in one fixture, and as the bulbs burn out, I replace them with all with LEDs? How would sense keep up.
    Better yet, what if I have a fixture with 10 bulbs, and 1 of them burns out, will Sense know it's the same fixture next time it's turned on?

    I don't think they released their API for IFFFT, right? That would be cool... If I'm not home, but sense detects a light bulb go on, send me an email, etc. etc. etc.
     
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  20. dedicatedtek

    dedicatedtek Member

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    Had you ever thought of making your own electric meter with something like a Raspberry PI ?
    this should be fairly easy, and a lot cheaper.
     

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