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Part of it is ignorance and confusion on my part. I'm a new Tesla owner. I see the wall connector in the Tesla shop for people to buy for their homes.
It never crossed my mind that this same unit could be turned into auto-billable charger. Really, these chargers should require a red face plate and/or one that says "destination charger" - before the billing feature can be turned on.
Anyway, if I just went in there one time and got charged, okay, shady, but I could have been more careful.
However, there was no billing for a minimum of 3 months. I have no idea how long the wall connectors were there before then.
Thus they long established an expectation of free charging for guest parking.
To suddenly change to no-notification no-consent automatic billing should be illegal. And that Tesla enables this, is crazy.
It's part of building more of a walled garden. I suspect that the TeslaTap adapter will not work for places that bill for the use.What if a non-Tesla EV using a TeslaTap/Tesla-to-j1772 adapter plugged into this HPWC?
And that article was just posted six comments above yours too.I haven’t personally come across these before, but this capability of doing billing on Destination Chargers was “announced” nine months ago.
And that article was just posted six comments above yours too.
I do think a lot of people knew when these were deployed with wi-fi capability and that article came out that this was something that probably would be coming in the future. I think the part that is a bit contentious is how it could be done like this, with surprise billing after the fact, with no notice or confirmation on the car's screen. That would seem to be necessary by many state laws.
A.1.1. Effective Date for AC EVSE. - All AC EVSE used for commercial purposes shall comply with all requirements of this article in accordance with the following:
(a) All AC EVSE installed prior to January 1, 2021, shall comply with the requirements of this article by January 1, 2031.
(b) All AC EVSE installed on or after January 1, 2021, shall comply with the requirements of this article upon installation.
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S.2.4.1. Unit Price. - An EVSE shall be able to indicate on each face the unit price at which the EVSE is set to compute or to dispense at any point in time during a transaction. A computing EVSE shall display the unit price in whole cents (e.g., $0.12) or tenths of one cent (e.g., $0.119) on the basis of price per megajoule (MJ) or kilowatt-hour (kWh). In cases where the electrical energy is unlimited or free of charge, this fact shall be clearly indicated in place of the unit price.
S.2.4.2. Equipment Capacity and Type of Voltage. - An EVSE shall be able to conspicuously display on each face the maximum rate of energy transfer (i.e., maximum power) and the type of current associated with each unit price offered (e.g., 7 kW AC, 25 kW DC, etc.).
S.2.7. Indication of Delivery. - The EVSE shall automatically display on its face the initial zero condition and the quantity delivered (up to the capacity of the indicating elements).
When standing outside the car, some display on the car's screen is worse than useless. And somethinf requiring acknowledge is completely unworkable.And that article was just posted six comments above yours too.
I do think a lot of people knew when these were deployed with wi-fi capability and that article came out that this was something that probably would be coming in the future. I think the part that is a bit contentious is how it could be done like this, with surprise billing after the fact, with no notice or confirmation on the car's screen. That would seem to be necessary by many state laws.
I never said that is the best option. I said it is something that could be done, rather than the nothing that was happening here.When standing outside the car, some display on the car's screen is worse than useless.
Uh, what the frickin' hell? Why would you think that? Notice and acceptance of fees would be a very standard and acceptable thing.And somethinf requiring acknowledge is completely unworkable.
Sure, that would be another method, but also realize that is very inflexible. Gas stations all switched away from those physical numbers on their signs because of how frequently they change prices, so it can be done electronically. And similarly with this. If you have metal powder coated signs posted with the rates, how expensive is that going to be to have to get those signs reprinted just to change the electricity prices?But a physical sign next to a chargeable Destination Charger would be highly desirable, so the user can then try to find out the price, unless they already know it..
Property owner can do what they want of course. As a housing provider, providing charging is an amenity offered with the hope of making the property more desirable vs competition. It’s a courtesy to put a sign that says this isn’t free, just like it’s a courtesy to put the charger and the expense of 220 service to a parking lot in the first place. Why risk angering someone with your amenity? Just don’t offer it. My guess is this is either a mistake in configuration or the residents were notified and failed to tell their guests. I would have put a sign, but I could see another owner notifying residents and moving on, especially if they are not EV owners themselves. Another possibility, this is a complex like most, managed by someone other than the owner who doesn’t give a you know what about the establishment’s long term success and didn’t give the issue 10 seconds of reflection. Actually that’s the most likely answer. Thanks for heads up OP.I never said that is the best option. I said it is something that could be done, rather than the nothing that was happening here.
Uh, what the frickin' hell? Why would you think that? Notice and acceptance of fees would be a very standard and acceptable thing.
Sure, that would be another method, but also realize that is very inflexible. Gas stations all switched away from those physical numbers on their signs because of how frequently they change prices, so it can be done electronically. And similarly with this. If you have metal powder coated signs posted with the rates, how expensive is that going to be to have to get those signs reprinted just to change the electricity prices?
I was suggesting a sign this charger isn't free. Needs some kind of Internet link available.I never said that is the best option. I said it is something that could be done, rather than the nothing that was happening here.
Uh, what the frickin' hell? Why would you think that? Notice and acceptance of fees would be a very standard and acceptable thing.
Sure, that would be another method, but also realize that is very inflexible. Gas stations all switched away from those physical numbers on their signs because of how frequently they change prices, so it can be done electronically. And similarly with this. If you have metal powder coated signs posted with the rates, how expensive is that going to be to have to get those signs reprinted just to change the electricity prices?
That was my thought - the presumption all along is that the charging stations were always meant to be free. Perhaps they were supposed to be fee-based but were initially configured incorrectly and people were charging for free when they shouldn’t have been able to. the management may well have notified residents, too. Maybe they had ordered signs but they hadn’t arrived of been posted yet.My guess is this is either a mistake in configuration or the residents were notified and failed to tell their guests.
Once they really start rolling this out I expect that one will need to accept the payment terms on the car screen or via the app. We are at very early days of electricity charge back with the GEN3 connector.That was my thought - the presumption all along is that the charging stations were always meant to be free. Perhaps they were supposed to be fee-based but were initially configured incorrectly and people were charging for free when they shouldn’t have been able to. the management may well have notified residents, too. Maybe they had ordered signs but they hadn’t arrived of been posted yet.
personally, I think Tesla should notify the owner when a fee-based charge begins. On the screen in the car would be fine - it’s not that hard to peek in the window to check, but a notification on the phone app would also be easy and convenient.
i don't think anyone here in this thread has a problem with having to pay to charge. it's just that people need to be notified as to the cost beforehand.I guess we need to looks at it with a positive attitude- with the increase in EVs, we need more chargers ( SCs or DCs ) and just as gas stations are not free to use, non personal/public chargers will not be free to use. I think we need to change our expectations - and it is for the greater good for EV buyers and users- (a) there will be incentive for installation of more DCs at public places and hotels/residential complexes- addressing the range anxiety of EV users and (b) you will only charge your EV because you need to and not because it is free- will reduce unnecessary crowding at DCs thereby giving more opportunity to the people who really need to charge to get to their destination.
Very good observation and comment. And go back to the first few post and replace the DC/WC/electricity with Gas pump/gasoline and let's see if we think the same way as the thread progresses.I guess we need to looks at it with a positive attitude- with the increase in EVs, we need more chargers ( SCs or DCs ) and just as gas stations are not free to use, non personal/public chargers will not be free to use. I think we need to change our expectations - and it is for the greater good for EV buyers and users- (a) there will be incentive for installation of more DCs at public places and hotels/residential complexes- addressing the range anxiety of EV users and (b) you will only charge your EV because you need to and not because it is free- will reduce unnecessary crowding at DCs thereby giving more opportunity to the people who really need to charge to get to their destination.
If your meter is actually on the 10th floor that would be a problem, so first find out where your meter is.A similar question.
I live in a highrise complex, and my car space is about ten floors below my apartment.
I have spoken to the local electrician about installing a power point next to a car space, with a view to having the electricity from that outlet charged to my residential account.
The company that supplies the electricity tells me that it is possible to have such an arrangement.
My local electrician says, "no way," he says that the power downstairs must be metered to my meter on the tenth floor. A very expensive installation.
Does anyone have any experience in this area?