Getting billed for using a normal looking wall connector?

[Rocky_H]

huh? you're complaining because you plugged your car into some random connector and were charged for it?

No, and no. Do we need to recap the thread?

1. This was not a random one. It is an apartment complex the OP visits frequently as a guest.
2. It was in the area for guest parking and labeled for guest use.
3. It was separate from the ones reserved for residents.
4. This is a Tesla wall connector, which up until this thread was not thought to have the capability of metering and charging enabled yet.
5. On repeated uses before, it always was free up until recently.
6. There was no form of activation which would indicate something that is metered for pay.
7. There was no announcing that it was going to charge or what the fees were.

 

[ngng]

No, and no. Do we need to recap the thread?

1. This was not a random one. It is an apartment complex the OP visits frequently as a guest.
2. It was in the area for guest parking and labeled for guest use.
3. It was separate from the ones reserved for residents.
4. This is a Tesla wall connector, which up until this thread was not thought to have the capability of metering and charging enabled yet.
5. On repeated uses before, it always was free up until recently.
6. There was no form of activation which would indicate something that is metered for pay.
7. There was no announcing that it was going to charge or what the fees were.

no, and no. threads like this make tesla owners sound like a bunch of entitled whiners.

it's private property. they are free to charge what they choose. it's up to the person who is plugging in to determine costs, if any, are going to be charged. before I plug into any wall connector I make sure it's ok. I would wager that if OP asked the apt complex prior to plugging in, they would have told them what's going on. it's not the responsibility of the apt complex to notify random people that there are going to be charges.

 

[techzelle]

huh? you're complaining because you plugged your car into some random connector and were charged for it?

Not random, a charging spot labelled for "guest" that was free for at least 3 months.
Then without any signs, indications, or notifications begins charging automatically without consent.

 

[ngng]

Not random, a charging spot labelled for "guest" that was free for at least 3 months.
Then without any signs, indications, or notifications begins charging automatically without consent.

why are you saying "without my consent". you plugged THEIR connector into your car and are complaining. did their signs ever say "FREE USE CHARGER" or, did you plug in, and it happened to be free?

 

[techzelle]

no, and no. threads like this make tesla owners sound like a bunch of entitled whiners.

it's private property. they are free to charge what they choose. it's up to the person who is plugging in to determine costs, if any, are going to be charged. before I plug into any wall connector I make sure it's ok. I would wager that if OP asked the apt complex prior to plugging in, they would have told them what's going on. it's not the responsibility of the apt complex to notify random people that there are going to be charges.

Apartment should have put up a sign or notification about what rate is being charged.

I don't mind being charged.
I do mind when someone charges me automatically, without consent, at whatever rate they choose to set.

Ultimately, Tesla should have a pop up notification on the touchscreen display -
whenever you charge with a wall connector showing what rate you are going to be charged. Then you can choose to accept or reject.
This is also a safeguard against shady people who turn on billing without notification.

 

[ngng]

Apartment should have put up a sign or notification about what rate is being charged.

I don't mind being charged.
I do mind when someone charges me automatically, without consent, at whatever rate they choose to set.

Ultimately, Tesla should have a pop up notification on the touchscreen display -
whenever you charge with a wall connector showing what rate you are going to be charged. Then you can choose to accept or reject.
This is also a safeguard against shady people who turn on billing without notification.

this all goes back to the simple, simple idea that you should ask before you plug in. have you asked the apt leasing office about the fee? what did they tell you?

i don't disagree that signage would be helpful. i do disagree that it is somehow the fault of the apt.

 

[EfficientWatts]

this all goes back to the simple, simple idea that you should ask before you plug in. have you asked the apt leasing office about the fee? what did they tell you?

i don't disagree that signage would be helpful. i do disagree that it is somehow the fault of the apt.

the person had no need / expectations to ask the apt if they were going to charge because up until now, HPWC have always been free (in that they wouldn't bill the Tesla account directly). the most that entities may post are threats to tow or that these spots are reserved for xyz. now that has changed, it is the apartment's responsibility to post signage that you will be charged.

this isn't like someone finding a random wallplug in a garage and plugging in their UMC to charge their car.

i don't get why you're trying to put so much blame on the original person. the person isn't asking for a free handout, they just want to be properly notified. I guess all of us now have to be aware about Gen 3 chargers in such situations as well.

this is like a complex having a free guest parking system, but deciding to institute a visitor's parking permit requirement but not putting up signage and notices and getting a bunch of cars towed. (a bit extreme, but trying to illustrate the point).

I think Tesla could improve the experience here as they could via push notification or via the car display that this isn't free . That's one advantage Chargepoint has, in that they can clearly show the costs and such on the unit itself.

 

[ngng]

the person had no need / expectations to ask the apt if they were going to charge because up until now, HPWC have always been free (in that they wouldn't bill the Tesla account directly). the most that entities may post are threats to tow or that these spots are reserved for xyz. now that has changed, it is the apartment's responsibility to post signage that you will be charged.

this isn't like someone finding a random wallplug in a garage and plugging in their UMC to charge their car.

i don't get why you're trying to put so much blame on the original person. the person isn't asking for a free handout, they just want to be properly notified. I guess all of us now have to be aware about Gen 3 chargers in such situations as well.

this is like a complex having a free guest parking system, but deciding to institute a visitor's parking permit requirement but not putting up signage and notices and getting a bunch of cars towed. (a bit extreme, but trying to illustrate the point).

I think Tesla could improve the experience here as they could via push notification or via the car display that this isn't free . That's one advantage Chargepoint has, in that they can clearly show the costs and such on the unit itself.

i mean yes, I guess i'm putting blame on the op...because guess what, it was 100% within their control. at the end of the the day: it's private property. don't go plugging into things you don't fully understand (which OP did not). i ran into this situation last weekend with a wall connector on the wall of a biz. *sugar*, they charged me too. but it wasn't a surprise, because I asked.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

this all goes back to the simple, simple idea that you should ask before you plug in. have you asked the apt leasing office about the fee? what did they tell you?

i don't disagree that signage would be helpful. i do disagree that it is somehow the fault of the apt.

The apartment complex should have put up a sign.

BTW Are you certain the car didn't know about the charge ahead of time, had you looked?

IMHO Please, no bloody screen interaction to activate charging.

 

[EfficientWatts]

i mean yes, I guess i'm putting blame on the op...because guess what, it was 100% within their control. at the end of the the day: it's private property. don't go plugging into things you don't fully understand (which OP did not). i ran into this situation last weekend with a wall connector on the wall of a biz. *sugar*, they charged me too. but it wasn't a surprise, because I asked.

you keep missing my point. as we have stated many times, HPWC before have never charged/billed the Tesla owner directly. furthermore, these were put up in guest parking spacing, so of course the expectation is that they can be used by anyone. if they really didn't want people to be using them, then they should put up signs that say as such.

what you are saying is like someone walking into a coffee shop, buying a cup of coffee, sitting down and plugging in their computer, then when leaving they get charged for the power usage from their computer. there is no expectation for one to be charged for power usage in a coffee shop. same with HPWC, up until now.

of course now the op will be more careful. but just as entities could decide to charge or not charge, it is up to the property owners to notify the end users as such so that people don't have to go running around to find someone to ask if those things cost money or not.

furthermore, having no signage of the billing i think (disclaimer: IANAL) may run afoul of the California law requiring electric cost and charge to be displayed (note: i know it isn't enforced yet, and I don't know if it applies to DCFC only or DCFC and AC as well).

 

[EfficientWatts]

IMHO Please, no bloody screen interaction to activate charging.

I can see why that would be annoying from a usability perspective. I think a good compromise could be a short grace period and/or charging delay start combined with such a notification, so the user could decide to not charge and disconnect.

 

[ngng]

you keep missing my point. as we have stated many times, HPWC before have never charged/billed the Tesla owner directly. furthermore, these were put up in guest parking spacing, so of course the expectation is that they can be used by anyone. if they really didn't want people to be using them, then they should put up signs that say as such.

what you are saying is like someone walking into a coffee shop, buying a cup of coffee, sitting down and plugging in their computer, then when leaving they get charged for the power usage from their computer.

of course now the op will be more careful. but just as entities could decide to charge or not charge, it is up to the property owners to notify the end users as such so that people don't have to go running around to find someone to ask if those things cost money or not.

furthermore, having no signage of the billing i think (disclaimer: IANAL) may run afoul of the California law requiring electric cost and charge to be displayed (note: i know it isn't enforced yet, and I don't know if it applies to DCFC only or DCFC and AC as well).

yes, i understand hpwc did not have the ability to charge or bill. that's irrelevant to my point.

putting the chargers up in guest parking spaces does not automatically mean it's to be used for anybody. your logic is the same as the OPs...the apt owner (again, on private property) needs to do x,y,z. the apt owner does not have to do *anything*.

following your logical fallacy, what OP did was walk into a coffee shop, not buy anything, squat to charge, leave, and get charged, and then wonder, why they were charged

 

[EfficientWatts]

yes, i understand hpwc did not have the ability to charge or bill. that's irrelevant to my point.

putting the chargers up in guest parking spaces does not automatically mean it's to be used for anybody. your logic is the same as the OPs...the apt owner (again, on private property) needs to do x,y,z. the apt owner does not have to do *anything*.

following your logical fallacy, what OP did was walk into a coffee shop, not buy anything, squat to charge, leave, and get charged, and then wonder, why they were charged

no, you're wrong again.

your fallacy is wrong because we are talking about a given set of expectations here; when one goes to a coffee shop and buys something, is it accepted that one can stay, plug in their devices, and not be charged for the cost of electricity. likewise, with the HPWC, in the past one would expect to not be charged for plugging into them and that they're available for use, especially if they're installed in guest/visitor parking spaces.

you are also assuming with that example that the OP is trespassing or illegally accessing the garage. can't say if that's happening or not, but your fallacy falls under the assumption that the OP is "stealing" from the complex, which is a big stretch.

 

[ngng]

no, you're wrong again.

your fallacy is wrong because we are talking about a given set of expectations here; when one goes to a coffee shop and buys something, is it accepted that one can stay, plug in their devices, and not be charged for the cost of electricity. likewise, with the HPWC, in the past one would expect to not be charged for plugging into them and that they're available for use, especially if they're installed in guest/visitor parking spaces.

you are also assuming with that example that the OP is trespassing or illegally accessing the garage. can't say if that's happening or not, but your fallacy falls under the assumption that the OP is "stealing" from the complex, which is a big stretch.

why are we talking about coffee shops again?

nowhere did i say op was stealing from the complex. I simply stated the complex is private property. if the OP lives there, they are bound by their lease agreement. if OP does not, sure, OP can be annoyed...but they have no leg to stand on.

 

[EfficientWatts]

why are we talking about coffee shops again?

nowhere did i say op was stealing from the complex. I simply stated the complex is private property. if the OP lives there, they are bound by their lease agreement. if OP does not, sure, OP can be annoyed...but they have no leg to stand on.

stop trying to move the goal posts; i see what you're doing. i bring that up because you tried to use my coffee shop example and twist it to a fallacious example. your example makes it sound like OP is stealing from the complex for plugging into the HPWC in the first place.

just because you're a private property doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, especially if there's money involved. otherwise, one can decide to say that random parking spots will result in a $1000 bill and then you would just go "oh its private property!"

 

[ngng]

stop trying to move the goal posts; i see what you're doing. i bring that up because you tried to use my coffee shop example and twist it to a fallacious example. your example makes it sound like OP is stealing from the complex for plugging into the HPWC in the first place.

just because you're a private property doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, especially if there's money involved. otherwise, one can decide to say that random parking spots will result in a $1000 bill and then you would just go "oh its private property!"

just because you're a private property doesn't mean you can do whatever you want

QED

 

[techzelle]

Part of it is ignorance and confusion on my part. I'm a new Tesla owner. I see the wall connector in the Tesla shop for people to buy for their homes.
It never crossed my mind that this same unit could be turned into auto-billable charger. Really, these chargers should require a red face plate and/or one that says "destination charger" - before the billing feature can be turned on.

Anyway, if I just went in there one time and got charged, okay, shady, but I could have been more careful.
However, there was no billing for a minimum of 3 months. I have no idea how long the wall connectors were there before then.

Thus they long established an expectation of free charging for guest parking.
To suddenly change to no-notification no-consent automatic billing should be illegal. And that Tesla enables this, is crazy.

 

[kayak1]

Part of it is ignorance and confusion on my part. I'm a new Tesla owner. I see the wall connector in the Tesla shop for people to buy for their homes.
It never crossed my mind that this same unit could be turned into auto-billable charger. Really, these chargers should require a red face plate and/or one that says "destination charger" - before the billing feature can be turned on.

Anyway, if I just went in there one time and got charged, okay, shady, but I could have been more careful.
However, there was no billing for a minimum of 3 months. I have no idea how long the wall connectors were there before then.

Thus they long established an expectation of free charging for guest parking.
To suddenly change to no-notification no-consent automatic billing should be illegal. And that Tesla enables this, is crazy.

This is a way for places to break even and install more destination charging. They aren't going to get rich. We should be glad that they are going to bill as we may see them installed in a lot more locations.

Sorry about the electrek.com link but it's the article I knew about:

Tesla pushes to upgrade Destination Chargers with Gen 3 Wall Connectors, enables paid charging

Tesla is making a push to have Destination Charging station owners upgrade to its Gen 3 Wall Connector as it...

electrek.co

 

[UncleCreepy]

So, does that only work for designated destination chargers or can everybody with a gen3 wall connector start billing people now? I just checked the firmware on my unit. It's still on 1.4.4. (0) with no updates available and there are no billing options.

 

[captanzuelo]

There really should be a sign that says you will be billed. Just consider yourself lucky that it was $1.50 for your one hour booty call and you didn't spend the night/weekend. (i kid)