Getting interesting... BMW 3-Series EV

[mutle]

I agree to not bash it, though range of 120 still limits it to short range travel and to those with a garage as it requires nightly charging.

I normally charge once or twice per week, sometimes even less. There are people that don't drive hundreds of miles every day. That's why those small battery EVs have their place, they were affordable when battery prices were much higher than they are now and will be in the future.

 

[Boourns]

If it is based off of the current 3 Series architecture, it will likely suffer from some kind of practical inconveniences. See the E Golf and Focus Electric. Designing an EV from the ground up will always result in a much more efficient product.

 

[timk225]

The so-called "competition" from BMW will be no competition at all. Instead of designing a pure EV, they will try to half-ass convert one of their 3 series cars into an EV. If it doesn't have at least 200 miles of real world range, don't even bother, BMW.

 

[182RG]

I think Mercedes and Porsche may make it. But BMW is toast, as is GM, Ford, Chrysler, and even Honda and Toyota.
Interesting next few years that is for true....

Just stop. Global car sales are approx. 77 million units annually. A couple hundred thousand Teslas are going to kill off ICE in 5 years? Typical Tesla fan hubris.....

 

[jelloslug]

I can see a 3 series EV with a trunk full of batteries and being priced in the Model S territory.

 

[JeffK]

I can see a 3 series EV with a trunk full of batteries and being priced in the Model S territory.

Why would it have a trunk full of batteries or be priced in Model S territory?

 

[electracity]

If it is based off of the current 3 Series architecture, it will likely suffer from some kind of practical inconveniences. See the E Golf and Focus Electric. Designing an EV from the ground up will always result in a much more efficient product.

It's a new "flex" platform, like the hyundai ioniq. We will need to wait and see how good these cars are when the range is over 200 miles. The Ioniq seems to have a lot of wasted space in the front, but that doesn't make it an uncompetitive EV.

A EV with a 3 series interior would be a good competitor to the model 3. Some people want spaceship, some want car.

 

[internalaudit]

The more BEVs the more transparent repair and maintenance costs will be for owners. Hopefully Tesla's pricing will be decreasing over time.

 

[jelloslug]

Why would it have a trunk full of batteries or be priced in Model S territory?

Because they cannot fit any significant amount of batteries in the existing spaces in the car. The 3 Series is an ICE car first and converting an ICE car to a BEV results in less than optimal packing of the battery. As for price, the 3 Series is already as expensive as a Model 3 so making a low volume version that is crammed full of expensive batteries is not going to be cheap.

 

[Drivesolo]

The so-called "competition" from BMW will be no competition at all. Instead of designing a pure EV, they will try to half-ass convert one of their 3 series cars into an EV. If it doesn't have at least 200 miles of real world range, don't even bother, BMW.

+1

Exactly. Had they come up w/ a new chassis, they would've given it an "i" designation or possibly something new. The fact that it's referred to as a 3-series means it'll be a "2nd thought EV". Because of it's timing, it seems to be an attempt to maintain the 3-series relevance to buyers of EVs looking at the Model 3.

 

[JeffK]

Because they cannot fit any significant amount of batteries in the existing spaces in the car. The 3 Series is an ICE car first and converting an ICE car to a BEV results in less than optimal packing of the battery. As for price, the 3 Series is already as expensive as a Model 3 so making a low volume version that is crammed full of expensive batteries is not going to be cheap.

First, the batteries are no longer that expensive.

You have both an engine and a transmission which can be removed. The 3 series is not a large car so you don't even need a large battery pack for a decent range. 60kWh would probably be fine, plenty of space for that.

 

[ikjadoon]

Not sure where you got that information, because it's wrong. In 2016 they launched a 50% range increase to 120 miles. Also, it's a really great and fun car to drive, no need to bash it just because it's not a Tesla.

Ah, crap; this is my bad. This is what I get for not keeping up. You're right; it's now 114 miles EPA. I had heard its initial 80 miles when the Model 3 and i3 were compared last year; I didn't hear about the recent 33-mile upgrade from 81 mi to 114 mi. Thank you for the fix.

To be fair, it's only 40% range / 33-mile increase / 114-mi total range, as BMW notes:

I didn't bash it because it wasn't a Tesla--that should be clear. The comment still stands: "114 miles in a 2017 EV?!" Not to mention that version starts at $44, 450. I bashed it because it's slower than the Chevy Bolt and has less range and costs more and, to be honest, looks even uglier. I bash things on their flaws, not their brands (as far as I can tell, but I'm happy to be informed otherwise).

 

[electracity]

Because they cannot fit any significant amount of batteries in the existing spaces in the car. The 3 Series is an ICE car first and converting an ICE car to a BEV results in less than optimal packing of the battery. As for price, the 3 Series is already as expensive as a Model 3 so making a low volume version that is crammed full of expensive batteries is not going to be cheap.

Again, they are not making the existing 3 series into an EV. BMW has plenty of smart people. All auto manufacturers have plenty of smart people. This is where all of Tesla's designer and engineers learned their craft.

 

[electracity]

I didn't bash it because it was a Tesla--that should be clear. The comment still stands: "114 miles in a 2017 EV?!" Not to mention that version starts at $44, 450. I bashed it because it's slower than the Chevy Bolt and has less range and costs more and, to be honest, looks even uglier. I bash things on their flaws, not their brands (as far as I can tell, but I'm happy to be informed otherwise).

The problem is that the i3 is smaller than the Bolt, has a bit more than half the range, and weighs 3000 lbs. What's the point of a tiny carbon fiber car with a 120 range that weighs 3000 pounds? May as well just stick batteries in the Mini and not bother with a new plant and a new process.

 

[jonnyg]

The problem is that the i3 is smaller than the Bolt, has a bit more than half the range, and weighs 3000 lbs. What's the point of a tiny carbon fiber car with a 120 range that weighs 3000 pounds? May as well just stick batteries in the Mini and not bother with a new plant and a new process.

People probably said similar things about Tesla developing the Roadster.

When you are learning new technologies, you have to start somewhere. Now BMW has knowledge of carbon fiber and how to make a car with it. Same for batteries, though not at higher battery sizes. And it's good to start with a lower volume application where you can sort out issues before transitioning it to your larger volume applications.

 

[SageBrush]

Just stop. Global car sales are approx. 77 million units annually. A couple hundred thousand Teslas are going to kill off ICE in 5 years? Typical Tesla fan hubris.....

The reality is neither extreme, but much closer to Tesla.

The large, established auto companies exist by volume and have margins of ~ 10%. They are structured in a way that covers their fixed costs with the first ~90% of sales, and the remainder becomes the profit. So a loss of 5% sales is a BIG deal that leads to in-efficient, expensive, demoralizing and stock damaging downsizing and severe financial stress.

A million Tesla sales will send shock waves through the German Premium brands, and 5 million sales will turn the industry inside-out. The recent recession that dropped US car sales to ~ 12M a year is a pretty good example of how the established US automakers deal with a drop in sales: they go into BK quickly.

 

[electracity]

People probably said similar things about Tesla developing the Roadster.

When you are learning new technologies, you have to start somewhere.

You don't seem to know the history of the roadster.

 

[SageBrush]

I didn't bash it because it wasn't a Tesla--that should be clear. The comment still stands: "114 miles in a 2017 EV?!" Not to mention that version starts at $44, 450. I bashed it because it's slower than the Chevy Bolt and has less range and costs more and, to be honest, looks even uglier. I bash things on their flaws, not their brands (as far as I can tell, but I'm happy to be informed otherwise).

I'm not quick to bash the price because it is a BMW, and all BMWs are expensive. And to be honest, looks are subjective. I do agree that the range can be a problem if it is not paired with an ICE but as a PHEV I find the car worthy of consideration. I had never stepped into a BMW dealership until the day I went to check out the i3. My wife loved the car even though she was skeptical of EVs at the time and has less than zero interest in supporting German industry. In the end, I skipped on the car because of its reliability issues, TCO, and preference for a Tesla at that price.

 

[jonnyg]

You don't seem to know the history of the roadster.

Yeah, and "stick batteries in X" was what they tried to do. Then they ended up redoing the whole car practically. Maybe they should have just started from the ground up with a low volume weird car that most people didn't see the point of and learning how to implement these new technologies before going on to higher volume cars. I guess that was my point.

 

[jbcarioca]

It is depressing to see people completely diss any electric car other than Tesla. I have driven quite a range myself, from BYD E6, to Nissan Leaf, BMW i3 and I8 to Tesla S and X. Frankly they all have a market. Not all applications need long range. The BYD, for example, is perfect for the in-town rental car/taxi market to which it is pitched, and it is possessed of the same instant response that are all BEV's. Please realize that new BEV's are a Good Thing. They'll only help Tesla thrive and they're good for the planet.