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Getting pissed with degredation

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I get 199-202 miles displayed on the guessometer of my SR+ at a 90% charge and 225-228 miles on a 100% charge if that makes you feel any better. Never seen the EPA 240 but I don't drive like the EPA tests their cars.


That's basically unlimited range for all my driving needs though so I'm happy
My SR+ was on 239-240 for a solid year, and that’s with charging to 90% nightly, then a update smashed it. I’m back to 233 miles by allowing it to go into a deep sleep overnight allowing the batteries to balance. No longer use Sentry mode or anything else to wake it, also have data sharing off to prevent any uploads.

as you can see below, allowing the battery to go into a deep sleep will allow the batteries to balance and you can see the results below as the range is increasing slowly. Note when the battery took a dump at around 16,500 miles. I believe this was 2020.28 that smashed my range.

53BA1382-F9FA-4553-A54E-6E9F939C8F71.jpeg


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Fred
 
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I say everyone try charging after sitting in various SOC's and letting it sit at a low for a couple hours before charging. I'm currently doing this. Charge to 90 and I will charge around 10-15% after a few hours. It takes me a week or two to drive this much but if we all do it and see what the results are in a couple months. Maybe this will work maybe not but it doesn't hurt to try. Deep discharge cycles won't really affect the battery much as long as we don't do it every time for the life of the car.
 
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My 2020 LR AWD has quickly gone from 289 miles (March 2020) at 90% to 261. It seems like every week the mileage is going down. This has been a major disappointment for me owning a Tesla.

Mine also did this after the first month of ownership. I think at the time it was an update that triggered it to drop? I still see 260 miles at 90% after 23 months and 24k miles.
 
Ketchup, I think we have bad batteries. After last night’s charge I’m down 12 miles and 3.72% range loss. I’m gonna contact Tesla to see if they can reset the BMS. Let me know your thoughts on this.

I really don't say this often, but your battery is probably just fine. Do not contact Tesla. They will not tell you anything that will make you happier, unless you would prefer to hear your battery is fine from them. "Resetting the BMS" will do nothing for you, your BMS doesn't seem to be behaving unexpectedly.

I lose range every time I charge. Not happy.

I can't find it (actually, I didn't look, just remembering), but you've said you're losing "a few miles every time you charge". Let's take the bottom end of "a few". The number "3".

You have a 2020 LR AWD. 322mi rated. Losing "a few", "3", miles every time is nearly 1%.

If you're down by 3.72%, have you only charged 4 times?

Even if so, again, this looks like typical initial degradation, and as you have been informed multiple times at this point, is entirely normal. You have also been informed that the data you've collected on TeslaFi is not accurate enough to be confident about a couple percent, which I can expand upon but it's just easier at this point to tell you to look at my recent posts.

Actually, never mind, I dug it up. Here's a post from a different thread:

The third-party tools use the Tesla API data which, yes, is the very same data you see in the app (and thus in the car as well to some extent). There are higher inaccuracies at lower states of charge - you cannot assume the "absolute error" for range at a lower SoC is the same at higher SoC.

Let's take my car's data, right now, from the API. In-app it's displaying 262km of range, which is about 162.8mi, thus the 162.85 below.

'battery_level': 55,
'battery_range': 162.85,
'est_battery_range': 236.2,
'ideal_battery_range': 162.85,
'usable_battery_level': 55,
There are a few very important things to note here:
  • Any representation of percentage is rounded. This is the primary source of error. At 20%, this could be either 19.5% or 20.49%. Since you divide by this to estimate range at max, this introduces huge variance at lower percentages (note how at 1%, it ranges from 0.5% to 1.49% - that's a 50% swing, showing where this increased variance comes from).
  • I have no idea what "est_battery_range" is. Assuming it's miles that's ~380km, far too low for representing the 100% state and far too high for its current state. Assuming it's somehow in km, it doesn't jive with anything else.
  • The numbers the apps use are the temperature-varying ones. For tracking actual battery health, this is unfair. Lower capacity is reported in cold, though this is not an actual indicator of degraded battery health.
So let's do the math these services would do. Take the current range (162.85) and divide by the percentage (0.55). That comes out to 296.1mi, or 476.5km. Also, in the app, if I drag the slider to 100%, reports that my 100% range is also about 476km, because it's doing the exact same calculation on the exact same data. So far so good, right?

Now recall the issue I mentioned with rounded numbers. I happen to know via the CAN bus that the actual SoC right now is 54.5%. If I use that instead, I get about 481km (and this is pretty much the actual 100% range of my car right now). But had it actually been 55.49% (and still reported "55"), that would falsely indicate 472km. That's already a 9km (5.6mi) spread.

At lower SoC, it gets even worse. Say at 10%, it was reporting 48.10km. But that "10" could be 9.5 or 10.499, which would indicate 100% ranges of 506km and 458km respectively. That is now a ridiculous 48km (~30mi) spread. In other words, that's 10% of the max range.

100% range estimates are estimates, whether it's a third-party service or the Tesla app
, and their accuracy is worse at lower SoC.

Now, that is not to say the current range number in the car is inaccurate.
That one is a pretty dang accurate representation of the current energy in the pack. The error is introduced when using a rounded, low significant digit percentage to estimate the 100% capacity.

These services have their place and can provide value, but the recommendation to throw away data for <90% SoC (if the service allows this) is absolutely warranted. Anything much below that has too much error for discussion on single-digit percentage degradations.

So if I take your numbers and plug them into a calculator I'm working on, this "3.72%" is anywhere from 2.20% to 4.34% (and only if you got that 3.72% estimate from a 90% charge). I know it has the appearance of accuracy since there's 3 digits, but it just is not that accurate. That does indeed still indicate some perfectly normal initial capacity loss.

Having this data is a double-edged sword. You must respect the context it is in, or you will drive yourself crazy and be disappointed.

Again, like I've said to you (a few times) and others (a hundred times or more), I entirely understand your frustration. Especially in comparison to older models where Tesla "hid" initial degradation, it now seems like they degrade faster. They do not. You are simply being shown the more honest truth than before.

Is it extremely disappointing to see miles tick away so fast when brand new? Yes, absolutely.
Is it markedly worse than other cars? Not at all.
Is it worse than your last Tesla? Very probably not. It just looks that way.
Do I entirely agree with how Tesla is doing this? I don't know, honestly. But I can't think of a better way that accurately shows capable range (capacity) and doesn't do what they did before (capping the max miles able to be shown).

Degradation is now 2.57% from 2.44% after driving additional 2k miles.
Total milage 8k.

That's it, I'm writing up a whole thread on this. Y'all are driving yourselves insane, and I feel for you.
 
Mine is an older molder where they hid the initial degredation. Unfortunately with that hid and now 27 miles "lost" that means I've lost more than what is shown. 69.7 nominal is what is showing from an initial 77.9 new
Yes, your case (to me) clearly shows less capacity than normal at its usage. That said, Model 3 is also just underperforming in that department compared to Model S/X from what I can figure out.
 
I say everyone try charging after sitting in various SOC's and letting it sit at a low for a couple hours before charging. I'm currently doing this. Charge to 90 and I will charge around 10-15% after a few hours. It takes me a week or two to drive this much but if we all do it and see what the results are in a couple months. Maybe this will work maybe not but it doesn't hurt to try. Deep discharge cycles won't really affect the battery much as long as we don't do it every time for the life of the car.
Three hours of deep sleep seems to be what Tesla is saying it needs for an accurate measurement. A couple hours won’t do it.
 
So I've done two charge cycles. First time after a week let it sit at 15% and charged to 90 and the second time 19% to 90. I've gained back 5 miles. So this might actually work. Hoping I keep getting gains like this. I've gained about 5 miles. Nothing significant but with the rapid degredation I was seeing this gives me hope.
Your degradation is not real, just BMS, it will take you two months in warm climate to climb right back.
I am at 40,000km now,25000miles @ 1 year 3 months ownership and have about 74.5-75kWh nominal full or about 4% less than brand new which is ok. I almost always only charge 10/20%-90% (on trips I do mostly 0/10%-80/90%)and never have the car plugged in all the time. Have charged to full at least a dozen times.