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Getting the 60D versus the 85D

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So many people out there still think they need 400-500 miles range, like a gas car.

You might need that kind of range if you can only charge once a week. I guess this would apply to apt/condo dwellers (outside CA?). Sure there will be outliers who regularly drive 400 miles in a day without being near a SC, but I'm sure that's not the case for the vast majority.

People are used to filling up about once a week, and that's what they relate to. Charging daily is not an intuitive concept. You don't fill a gas tank daily because it's inconvenient. Even at 80%, I have about a half of my week's required range available; but I only need today's miles today.

+1

Charging in the garage takes away that inconvenience of getting gas every 2 to 3 days when you drive a lot. If you had a gas pump in your garage, would you still want 400-500 miles of range in your tank? I don't see how a 500mile EV is necessary with supercharges out there.

I have a 60 without supercharging and it's more than enough for me. I do 30 to 50 miles a day and only had to charge outside of my garage twice so far on longer trips. I just couldn't justify the extra cost of the 85 with the driving that I do. Now, I put a deposit on a Model X and will be getting the 85 there because we plan on using it for our annual 1,000 mile (each way) drive to Florida. Can't wait to use the autopilot on that drive in the X.
 
I have a 60 and only needed the 85 range once, and that was only because the Supercharger wasn't (and still isn't) done. And that is only going off of Supercharger network. A 60D with dual chargers and supercharging would be nice. 85 to me only offers the warranty but most people won't need it, its just nice to have.
 
Honest question for other 85kWh owners: how often do you see below 50 rated miles remaining (from 90%)? If it is rare, then a 60kWh may have been enough for you too - strictly from a range perspective.

Enough times to be glad I bought the 85. The 85 is enough for my daily driving needs but it's the longer day trips - >1 hour there, >1 hour back where that extra range comes in handy. When I went up to Napa Valley, I started with a range charge, got some charge at a tasting room and didn't have enough charge to make it home. But I made it to the Fremont Supercharger with about 20 miles of range showing. Needless to say, with a 60, I wouldn't have made it to the SC. Monterey is doable but in the winter I make it back with <50 miles with a range charge unless I stop at the Gilroy SC on the way back. Carmel Valley in the winter -- dicey. Might have to stop at Gilroy on the way back even with the 85.

And the Fremont and Gilroy SC's are about 20/30 miles from house. So if I'm pulling into the SC on yellow with <40 miles of range left, making to the SC with a 60 would be nerve-wracking.

I keep hearing rumors about a SC near Napa Valley. Can hardly wait :).

P.S. - having said that, I did this analysis before I bought - which is *why* I bought the 85 instead of the 60.
 
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In the UK the SC network is far from complete and so the 85kwh is a must if you plan on any long distance driving.

I would consider the 85d because of the extra range but the earliest we will see that here in the UK is 12 months from now.

My daily commute is 50 miles and that's equivalent to 75 rated miles. At the weekend we can do 450 miles plus and hence we still have 3 ICE cars.
 
For all the talk about cycle counts and degradation, it is worth mentioning that even in a 60, calendar degradation may dominate. Cycle degradation doesn't seem too bad as evidenced by some high mileage drivers. Calendar degradation will take some time to figure.

Having said that, the extra 25 kwh allows for a lot of degradation without being a problem. Which really seems worth the $8k. Pick a number for degradation - 3% per year. After 5 years, compare the rated miles, then after 10. If you pick 150 as the minimum range you can live with, the 60 last 10 years, 85 - 18 years.

The other issue - time at superchargers. Lots of factors here but it maybe that the 60 requires twice as long as the 85 to get where you need to be (charging to 100% instead of 80%). Now while that might be a factor just a few times a year, it should be considered in the comparison. 20 minutes at a supercharger sounds like nothing to me. 40 minutes sounds excruciating unless you find something to do (with a family anxious to get to their destination).
 
For all the talk about cycle counts and degradation, it is worth mentioning that even in a 60, calendar degradation may dominate. Cycle degradation doesn't seem too bad as evidenced by some high mileage drivers. Calendar degradation will take some time to figure.

The PIA battery life survey for the Tesla Roadster looked at vehicle age, mileage, and temperature, and found that only mileage had a significant impact. I expect that will hold true for the Model S as well.
 
In the UK the SC network is far from complete and so the 85kwh is a must if you plan on any long distance driving.

When I got my 60kWh almost two years ago there were only 5 Supercharging stations in California. Now there are over 100 stations in the US and maybe another 100 worldwide. The pace of the Supercharger network rollout has been very impressive and I don't see it slowing down. As someone stated in a previous post, access to fast charging should not be undervalued in favor of larger battery capacity.
 
Since ordering my 60 I've started to have range anxiety due to living in the Denver area and knowing that road trips could include cold weather and driving thousands of feet into the mountains, both having drastic affects on the miles per kWh calculations..
 
The PIA battery life survey for the Tesla Roadster looked at vehicle age, mileage, and temperature, and found that only mileage had a significant impact. I expect that will hold true for the Model S as well.

Hadn't seen that one though I've heard the spirit of it referenced. Interesting how it seems so different than any other battery life study. Climate is usually king - even for 12V Lead acid. The TMS doesn't exactly make climate go away on the S and I'm assuming the same for the Roadster.
 
On the Earnings call Elon said there would be no 60D option. So my guess is that existing orders will need to move to either a 60 or 85D.

I would hope for people who ordered green and brown cars that the removal of those colors will not cancel orders, just prevent new orders.
 
On the Earnings call Elon said there would be no 60D option. So my guess is that existing orders will need to move to either a 60 or 85D.

I would hope for people who ordered green and brown cars that the removal of those colors will not cancel orders, just prevent new orders.

Or, perhaps a re-hash of the MS 40. Build only 85D/P85D. Software limit the 60D orders, but with 85D hardware.
 
Or, perhaps a re-hash of the MS 40. Build only 85D/P85D. Software limit the 60D orders, but with 85D hardware.
There's no way that's going to happen. The only reason they did it with the MS 40 was there were no other options available from Tesla at that price point or lower. With the 60D being canceled, you can still offer buyers a car for a lower price than what they ordered, just not with AWD. If AWD is a must have, then you pay more and get an 85D.