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GFCI Breaker is Code for EV Charging

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
3,517
763
NE Oklahoma
I would want #6, and we havnt even discussed voltage drop. You are conflating minimum code requirements with best practices.
You are free to do your install w/ 6 awg. But heck, why stop there? If 6 is good then 4 must be better right? How about 1? That is better still.

Please stop coming on here and spreading FUD and scaring people into overpaying for their installs. The code is there for a reason.
 

rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
2,378
1,650
Orange County, CA
Tesla specifically states not to install a GFCI breaker for use with their Mobile or Wall connectors.

I agree with the poster who predicts false trips with essentially two GFCIs in series.
 
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qdeathstar

Active Member
May 17, 2019
2,477
2,064
VB
You are free to do your install w/ 6 awg. But heck, why stop there? If 6 is good then 4 must be better right? How about 1? That is better still.

no. Of course there is a cost/benefit analysis to be done. #4 would require a large junction box, conduit, ect. And would 1awg even fit under a connection for a 50 amp receptacle?



Please stop coming on here and spreading FUD and scaring people into overpaying for their installs. The code is there for a reason.


you have no idea what you are talking about. The code is there for the minimum acceptable level. Not what is best. Running one gauge higher than required for large loads like this has many benefits. There is not a huge cost difference between running 8-3 or 6-3. Wake up...
 

MY-Y

Member
Mar 4, 2020
883
917
MD
I used 4 gauge for my Gen 3 HPWC and a spare 14-50 (heavier wire just in case i put another HPWC there.) I think that 4 gauge is the biggest wire that will fit a 14-50.

If I was putting in an outlet for only an EV, I'd use 6-2 or 4-2 (available at some electrical supply houses), and use a 6-50 outlet.
 
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davidinmedia

Member
Sep 21, 2020
9
2
Media, PA
Family member did our sub-panel which was done with a permit and passed inspection. No concerns on that front. I do want to be in compliance with code for EV charging, and outside of the GFCI breaker, it is. I did a quick internet search and I couldn't find any instances of a person getting injured while charging, so maybe this code change is an abundance of caution for a possible issue that has not yet occurred. So do I change the breaker to meet the new EV code, or just use it as is. Almost as hard as choosing the paint color....
I would make the claim that it's not an EV charging port, it's a specific device, a Tesla charging station with integrated GFCI protection (per the manual), therefore the requirement does not apply.
 

davidinmedia

Member
Sep 21, 2020
9
2
Media, PA
I would make the claim that it's not an EV charging port, it's a specific device, a Tesla charging station with integrated GFCI protection (per the manual), therefore the requirement does not apply.

To clarify, that only applies once you attach the Tesla charge port. With an outlet installed, you would need the GFCI to be compliant, as you could plug anything in there.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,127
7,124
Boise, ID
I would make the claim that it's not an EV charging port, it's a specific device, a Tesla charging station with integrated GFCI protection (per the manual), therefore the requirement does not apply.
We can certainly argue about whether it is sensible or stupid or ridiculous or whatever that this requirement is in the code, but unfortunately it is really clear, and it does apply.

"625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase
receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to
ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel. "

https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/Proposed_TIA_1242_NFPA_70.pdf

It does not say a single thing about whether or not the device you are plugging into it also has GFCI, so that is not relevant.
 
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strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
3,517
763
NE Oklahoma
no. Of course there is a cost/benefit analysis to be done. #4 would require a large junction box, conduit, ect. And would 1awg even fit under a connection for a 50 amp receptacle?
I was being facetious. I apologize for not inserting a winking emoji.
you have no idea what you are talking about. The code is there for the minimum acceptable level. Not what is best. Running one gauge higher than required for large loads like this has many benefits. There is not a huge cost difference between running 8-3 or 6-3. Wake up...
It's the minimum acceptable SAFE level. As long as you follow the code correctly (type of wire, temperatures, distance, etc) you can be assured that your install will not be a safety hazard. If you choose to over build in your house then you are free to do so. Are you telling me that your entire house wiring is up sized from code?

The OP has already run the wire. What you are saying is that they should rip out their installation and redo it. What I am saying is that is a waste of money.

Finally, I speak from experience. I have 2 x 14-50's in my garage for charging and both are running on #8. They have been charging Tesla's for 4 years now without any problems. For the first 3 years one of them was charging at 40A (Gen 1 Mobile Connector) and the other is still charging at 40A (Roadster UMC).
 
Last edited:

qdeathstar

Active Member
May 17, 2019
2,477
2,064
VB
. As long as you follow the code correctly (type of wire, temperatures, distance, etc) you can be assured that your install will not be a safety hazard.

tell that so the people who had aluminum wiring installed in the 70s or whose stab locked outlets melted down....

The OP has already run the wire. What you are saying is that they should rip out their installation and redo it.

when did I say that? What I am saying is he didn’t avoid a Tesla tax. He also didn’t get an outlet well suited for ev charging.

Finally, I speak from experience. I have 2 x 14-50's in my garage for charging and both are running on #8. They have been charging Tesla's for 4 years now without any problems. For the first 3 years one of them was charging at 40A (Gen 1 Mobile Connector) and the other is still charging at 40A (Roadster UMC).

Yay anecdotal evidence! What ya mean it isn’t up to code, it’s been working for 100 years....
 
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strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
3,517
763
NE Oklahoma
tell that so the people who had aluminum wiring installed in the 70s or whose stab locked outlets melted down....
No need for those code books everyone, we will all just do whatever @qdeathstar tells us. It'll be fine!
when did I say that? What I am saying is he didn’t avoid a Tesla tax. He also didn’t get an outlet well suited for ev charging.
You implied it. Your posts make it sound like 14-50's run with #8 are wrong or not "best practice" (whatever that means). Why does everyone think that charging an EV is some super special thing? Electrons don't behave differently if they're going to an oven, a welder, or an EV.
Yay anecdotal evidence! What ya mean it isn’t up to code, it’s been working for 100 years....
Except that it is up to code. And yes it has been working for years.....
 
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caffeinated

Member
Aug 4, 2020
52
26
Seattle, WA
Just an update: We did let the company know about the inspection and they said it was a mistake that the GFCI wasn't installed and they have scheduled the correction (and I'll report back later if we have any breaker faults once we are actually using it). I prefer to stay in code, but if it does create headaches then we'll spend the $10 and replace it with non-GFCI breaker.

As for the wiring, if it is in code for a 14-50 outlet then I'm absolutely not concerned about running continuous 32A through a few feet of it. Our new outlet is less than 4 feet from our panel in the center of the garage. It certainly isn't standard Romex, and looks like the heavy duty wiring used for our 100A sub-panel. I could go read the markings on it, but it isn't worth the trouble.
 

davidinmedia

Member
Sep 21, 2020
9
2
Media, PA
We can certainly argue about whether it is sensible or stupid or ridiculous or whatever that this requirement is in the code, but unfortunately it is really clear, and it does apply.

"625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase
receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to
ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel. "

https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/Proposed_TIA_1242_NFPA_70.pdf

It does not say a single thing about whether or not the device you are plugging into it also has GFCI, so that is not relevant.

It's not a receptacle, it's a charging device, direct-connected. The fact that it ultimately plugs into the car does not make it a receptacle; in fact, if anything, it's quite the opposite. Refer to any good dictionary.
 
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Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,127
7,124
Boise, ID
It's not a receptacle, it's a charging device, direct-connected. The fact that it ultimately plugs into the car does not make it a receptacle; in fact, if anything, it's quite the opposite. Refer to any good dictionary.
I don't know what thread you think you are reading. There is nothing "direct-connected" about this. Quoting from the very first post from the original poster:
In preparation for getting our MY we had an electrician install a NEMA 14-50 outlet
He said he got an "outlet" installed. What we call outlets in informal parlance is referred to in electric code as "receptacles".

So back to you, @davidinmedia , what did you think was being referred to? And I am not responding to that snide dictionary comment.
 

eski15

Member
Jul 18, 2020
9
4
New Jersey
Installed a 14-50 outlet with gfci and when I plugged the TMC into it, I had a blinking yellow trying to charge MY. My electrician came over and tested everything and it was testing ok. We finally swapped out the gfci for a normal 50amp breaker and everything worked great. Installed the Grizzl-e charger on the same outlet and everything has worked great. The grizzl-e install instructions say NOT to install with a gfci downstream as it has an internal gfci built in.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,127
7,124
Boise, ID
Installed a 14-50 outlet with gfci and when I plugged the TMC into it, I had a blinking yellow trying to charge MY. My electrician came over and tested everything and it was testing ok. We finally swapped out the gfci for a normal 50amp breaker and everything worked great. Installed the Grizzl-e charger on the same outlet and everything has worked great. The grizzl-e install instructions say NOT to install with a gfci downstream as it has an internal gfci built in.
Yep, I think that is going to be a source of much heartburn going forward for any plug-in EVSEs. The new 2017 NEC requires the GFCI breakers now on those outlets, but that is frequently going to cause a lot of problems with EVSEs always having their own internal GFCI that is going to create those kinds of conflicts. It's making for a better case for just going hardwired to not have to deal with this problem.
 

jstjohnz

Member
Sep 7, 2020
96
46
Indianapolis
I can see possible issues with nuisance tripping if breaker is GFCI and mobile connector has gfci but what effect would the GFCI breaker be having that would cause the mobile connector not to work?

People charge all the time from 15A and 20A 120V receptacles with no issues, and most likely those are GFCI protected if in a garage. Why no reported issues with those?
 

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