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GFCI Breaker is Code for EV Charging
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strider
Active Member
You are free to do your install w/ 6 awg. But heck, why stop there? If 6 is good then 4 must be better right? How about 1? That is better still.
Please stop coming on here and spreading FUD and scaring people into overpaying for their installs. The code is there for a reason.
no. Of course there is a cost/benefit analysis to be done. #4 would require a large junction box, conduit, ect. And would 1awg even fit under a connection for a 50 amp receptacle?
you have no idea what you are talking about. The code is there for the minimum acceptable level. Not what is best. Running one gauge higher than required for large loads like this has many benefits. There is not a huge cost difference between running 8-3 or 6-3. Wake up...
I used 4 gauge for my Gen 3 HPWC and a spare 14-50 (heavier wire just in case i put another HPWC there.) I think that 4 gauge is the biggest wire that will fit a 14-50.
If I was putting in an outlet for only an EV, I'd use 6-2 or 4-2 (available at some electrical supply houses), and use a 6-50 outlet.
If I was putting in an outlet for only an EV, I'd use 6-2 or 4-2 (available at some electrical supply houses), and use a 6-50 outlet.
I would make the claim that it's not an EV charging port, it's a specific device, a Tesla charging station with integrated GFCI protection (per the manual), therefore the requirement does not apply.
To clarify, that only applies once you attach the Tesla charge port. With an outlet installed, you would need the GFCI to be compliant, as you could plug anything in there.
We can certainly argue about whether it is sensible or stupid or ridiculous or whatever that this requirement is in the code, but unfortunately it is really clear, and it does apply.
"625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase
receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to
ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel. "
https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/Proposed_TIA_1242_NFPA_70.pdf
It does not say a single thing about whether or not the device you are plugging into it also has GFCI, so that is not relevant.
strider
Active Member
I was being facetious. I apologize for not inserting a winking emoji.
It's the minimum acceptable SAFE level. As long as you follow the code correctly (type of wire, temperatures, distance, etc) you can be assured that your install will not be a safety hazard. If you choose to over build in your house then you are free to do so. Are you telling me that your entire house wiring is up sized from code?
The OP has already run the wire. What you are saying is that they should rip out their installation and redo it. What I am saying is that is a waste of money.
Finally, I speak from experience. I have 2 x 14-50's in my garage for charging and both are running on #8. They have been charging Tesla's for 4 years now without any problems. For the first 3 years one of them was charging at 40A (Gen 1 Mobile Connector) and the other is still charging at 40A (Roadster UMC).
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tell that so the people who had aluminum wiring installed in the 70s or whose stab locked outlets melted down....
when did I say that? What I am saying is he didn’t avoid a Tesla tax. He also didn’t get an outlet well suited for ev charging.
Yay anecdotal evidence! What ya mean it isn’t up to code, it’s been working for 100 years....
strider
Active Member
No need for those code books everyone, we will all just do whatever @qdeathstar tells us. It'll be fine!
You implied it. Your posts make it sound like 14-50's run with #8 are wrong or not "best practice" (whatever that means). Why does everyone think that charging an EV is some super special thing? Electrons don't behave differently if they're going to an oven, a welder, or an EV.
Except that it is up to code. And yes it has been working for years.....
Just an update: We did let the company know about the inspection and they said it was a mistake that the GFCI wasn't installed and they have scheduled the correction (and I'll report back later if we have any breaker faults once we are actually using it). I prefer to stay in code, but if it does create headaches then we'll spend the $10 and replace it with non-GFCI breaker.
As for the wiring, if it is in code for a 14-50 outlet then I'm absolutely not concerned about running continuous 32A through a few feet of it. Our new outlet is less than 4 feet from our panel in the center of the garage. It certainly isn't standard Romex, and looks like the heavy duty wiring used for our 100A sub-panel. I could go read the markings on it, but it isn't worth the trouble.
As for the wiring, if it is in code for a 14-50 outlet then I'm absolutely not concerned about running continuous 32A through a few feet of it. Our new outlet is less than 4 feet from our panel in the center of the garage. It certainly isn't standard Romex, and looks like the heavy duty wiring used for our 100A sub-panel. I could go read the markings on it, but it isn't worth the trouble.
It's not a receptacle, it's a charging device, direct-connected. The fact that it ultimately plugs into the car does not make it a receptacle; in fact, if anything, it's quite the opposite. Refer to any good dictionary.
I don't know what thread you think you are reading. There is nothing "direct-connected" about this. Quoting from the very first post from the original poster:
He said he got an "outlet" installed. What we call outlets in informal parlance is referred to in electric code as "receptacles".
So back to you, @davidinmedia , what did you think was being referred to? And I am not responding to that snide dictionary comment.
Installed a 14-50 outlet with gfci and when I plugged the TMC into it, I had a blinking yellow trying to charge MY. My electrician came over and tested everything and it was testing ok. We finally swapped out the gfci for a normal 50amp breaker and everything worked great. Installed the Grizzl-e charger on the same outlet and everything has worked great. The grizzl-e install instructions say NOT to install with a gfci downstream as it has an internal gfci built in.
Yep, I think that is going to be a source of much heartburn going forward for any plug-in EVSEs. The new 2017 NEC requires the GFCI breakers now on those outlets, but that is frequently going to cause a lot of problems with EVSEs always having their own internal GFCI that is going to create those kinds of conflicts. It's making for a better case for just going hardwired to not have to deal with this problem.
Aluminum wire? If so, check to see that both the breaker and outlet are rated for Al. Some say Cu only.
I can see possible issues with nuisance tripping if breaker is GFCI and mobile connector has gfci but what effect would the GFCI breaker be having that would cause the mobile connector not to work?
People charge all the time from 15A and 20A 120V receptacles with no issues, and most likely those are GFCI protected if in a garage. Why no reported issues with those?
People charge all the time from 15A and 20A 120V receptacles with no issues, and most likely those are GFCI protected if in a garage. Why no reported issues with those?
