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Tam
Well-Known Member
SW2Fiddler
We Are Cognitive Dissidents
Which social support service was more problematic - the open bar or a (I assume trained and well behaved) canine?
Perspective, perspective...
JPP
Active Member
See my other post--not an emotional therapy dog/animal. A whole different class of assistance/service animal. and regulated under a different set of rules/regs under the ADA. Abby is a medical service dog (...and, no, it is none of your business how she assists me).
JPP
Active Member
As per my other post, not an emotional therapy dog, but a medical service dog. For my needs, she does not need to be big or strong, just very smart (...smarter than you??).
JPP
Active Member
Thanks for the support--I have addressed the unwashed masses in other posts. Ignorance of the ADA is epidemic....
JPP
Active Member
JPP
Active Member
She was far, far better behaved than the many pushy, entitled party 'guests' getting plastered and bitching about the food service, and yelling when Elon and JB were trying to address the crowd.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
I'm OK with you saying it's none of my business what her specific subclass is. I still think I was spot on in saying:
It's a service dog, ... but still they wouldn't let it in the factory if it wasn't a service dog.
Thus informing the thread it was likely a service dog and defending it's presence before you joined the thread.
If you take offense to my example subclasses for service dogs at least know it wasn't intended as a derogatory classification.
Odebek
Don't Panic
You are probably right, I am sure she is smarter than me! I apologize for offending as I am unaware of your specific situation, was a momentary lapse in judgement as I was Jealous that she got to attend ;-)
Your situation aside, does it frustrate you to see so many people abusing legitimate need for service dogs, just so they can bring them into a restaurant?
JPP
Active Member
Thanks for the apology--appreciate it.
To answer your question, yes, it is incredibly frustrating to see the gross abuse of the ADA. This unfortunately is a result of very badly worded language in the law/code. Believe it or not, there is no Federal requirement for someone to demonstrate proper training or testing of a service animal. There is no requirement/provision for official licensure or some kind of universal documentation/wallet ID card. There is no standard or requirement for a service vest or recognizable identifying garment/tag. The law states that an individual who has an animal (it can be essentially any animal, e.g. a parrot, pig, lizard, or dog) and makes a representation that the animal is a medical service animal must be accommodated. No license, no ID, no vest. And if the institution does not cooperate, it is a Federal offense. I would not want to be a restaurateur, airline, hotel, etc under these circumstances. The law does however allow an establishment to eject/bar an animal and their 'owner' if the animal is disruptive or unruly. I have seen no shortage of out-of-control dogs at TSA security checkpoints. Makes it bad for the rest of us. And, BTW, let's not discuss the variability and challenge of international travel where there is no equivalent (badly crafted) ADA.
Odebek
Don't Panic
JPP
Active Member
Just got back from Zug, Switzerland. Very dog friendly culture, all the shops had posts outside to leash animals and I saw 4-5 people bringing their pets into restaurants (even a sushi bar!).
Keep in mind for your next vacation
Yes, Switzerland reportedly very dog friendly. Certainly France is. There is however a distinction between friendly and the prevailing local and EU laws. Bringing an animal into the EU from the USA requires a substantial amount of testing and documentation. There is an EU 'pet passport' which requires completion and endorsement by a USDA vet. Also FWIW when Abby was young we had a microchip implanted. Problem is that the old US standard chip does not meet ISO rules and is not readable or recognized abroad. Had to implant a 2nd ISO standard chip, which gets read by EU immigration and matched to the number on the official EU 'pet passport'.
First of all, thanks to everyone for their reports and pictures from the event. Looks like it was a fun time, and I appreciate the glimpses into what was actually revealed--not much, honestly, but it's interesting nonetheless.
I'm glad Tesla respected your right to carry the dog. Looks like a great companion for you. I have a friend with a Havanese. His family loves it dearly and it is no doubt a very sharp doggie. I also appreciate that you corrected some misperceptions about service animals. There is a lot of abuse, and the way to prevent it is to keep letting people know what the reasons are for ADA-protected service animals vs. emotional support animals. I will, however, correct the quoted bit. Federal law really only protects dogs. No other species is protected by Title II or Title III of the ADA as a service animal. Many businesses will allow other animals, but that is either their choice or it is mandated by state or local laws.
I will also add that under the ADA an establishment may only ask 2 questions about the dog to determine whether they have to allow the dog within its premises: 1. Is the animal required because of a disability? 2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform? There is also the twist that the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) does allow for a slightly different set of 3 questions by an airline and does provide for use of emotional support animals on commercial airplanes, including animals other than dogs. Airlines can require documentation for those animals though, which they cannot require for an ADA service animal.
So in the end, no, Tesla did not have to allow someone with a turkey to tour the gigafactory.
I'm glad Tesla respected your right to carry the dog. Looks like a great companion for you. I have a friend with a Havanese. His family loves it dearly and it is no doubt a very sharp doggie. I also appreciate that you corrected some misperceptions about service animals. There is a lot of abuse, and the way to prevent it is to keep letting people know what the reasons are for ADA-protected service animals vs. emotional support animals. I will, however, correct the quoted bit. Federal law really only protects dogs. No other species is protected by Title II or Title III of the ADA as a service animal. Many businesses will allow other animals, but that is either their choice or it is mandated by state or local laws.
I will also add that under the ADA an establishment may only ask 2 questions about the dog to determine whether they have to allow the dog within its premises: 1. Is the animal required because of a disability? 2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform? There is also the twist that the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) does allow for a slightly different set of 3 questions by an airline and does provide for use of emotional support animals on commercial airplanes, including animals other than dogs. Airlines can require documentation for those animals though, which they cannot require for an ADA service animal.
So in the end, no, Tesla did not have to allow someone with a turkey to tour the gigafactory.
JPP
Active Member
First of all, thanks to everyone for their reports and pictures from the event. Looks like it was a fun time, and I appreciate the glimpses into what was actually revealed--not much, honestly, but it's interesting nonetheless.
I'm glad Tesla respected your right to carry the dog. Looks like a great companion for you. I have a friend with a Havanese. His family loves it dearly and it is no doubt a very sharp doggie. I also appreciate that you corrected some misperceptions about service animals. There is a lot of abuse, and the way to prevent it is to keep letting people know what the reasons are for ADA-protected service animals vs. emotional support animals. I will, however, correct the quoted bit. Federal law really only protects dogs. No other species is protected by Title II or Title III of the ADA as a service animal. Many businesses will allow other animals, but that is either their choice or it is mandated by state or local laws.
I will also add that under the ADA an establishment may only ask 2 questions about the dog to determine whether they have to allow the dog within its premises: 1. Is the animal required because of a disability? 2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform? There is also the twist that the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) does allow for a slightly different set of 3 questions by an airline and does provide for use of emotional support animals on commercial airplanes, including animals other than dogs. Airlines can require documentation for those animals though, which they cannot require for an ADA service animal.
So in the end, no, Tesla did not have to allow someone with a turkey to tour the gigafactory.
Thanks for the added comments. In my experience most establishments never ask the magic questions, but the airlines for sure do. In fact when booking travel, I have to subsequently call the appropriate Disabilities Desk and answer the usual questions. As you note, no documentation needed for medical service dogs, but appropriate letters from medical professionals required for emotional therapy animals. I do however carry a wallet photo ID card from my professional trainer--useful but not 'government sanctioned'.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
You two guys have probably seen this before, but I'd guess many haven't:
Flying turkey ruffles feathers about 'emotional support' animals on planes | Fox News
Flying turkey ruffles feathers about 'emotional support' animals on planes | Fox News
Thanks for catching my hint. I didn't pick turkey for nothin'.
