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Gigafactory will produce larger cells that the Typ 18650

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by Tharo, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. Tharo

    Tharo Member

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    Tesla Vice President Jerome Guillen has confirmed in an interview that the battery cells that will produced in Gigafactory will be larger than usual. Rumored to be the typ 26650 format that let you use the same machinery as used for the type 18650 with minor changes.

    Article in German:
    Tesla stellt in Gigafactory nicht Batteriezellen vom Typ 18650 her - manager magazin

    Translate to english with Google translate:

    They are the secret to success of U.S. electric carmaker Tesla: The powerful Panasonic batteries cells type 18650, which is also found in laptops. In his planned mega-battery factory but CEO Elon Musk wants to produce other batteries, as manager magazin learned online.

    A car that is powered by electricity from Laptop batteries? Since managers had established car manufacturers for a long time laughing heartily. But Tesla CEO Elon Musk sat at the plan, built Roadster and Model S with the simple but powerful Panasonic cells type 18650 The cars struck a market, the observer no longer joked.

    But now Musk apparently verbschiedet of his success cells as manager magazin learned online. In his planned Gigafactory - a monstrous battery factory in the Nevada desert - will, according to the information build larger memory hurtling resolved corporate leaders.
    "In the Gigafactory they are other batteries than the previous 18,650 cells use", according to industry sources. "They will be a greater dimension, will deliver more energy per cell." Tesla Vice President Jerome Guillen confirmed changes compared to manager magazin online : "Let's say the batteries will be optimized, also in terms of their performance."

    With larger cells Tesla could save a lot of money especially. And that is what matters for the company now: The battery production will be significantly cheaper in the new factory - at least 30 percent. For Musk wants to equip with the batteries be mass model "Model 3", which is to 2017 or 2018 to be launched .
    Used Tesla larger cells, such as type 26650, the company saves on the one hand material for the case of memory. The diameter of this cylindrical battery is 26 millimeters in 8 millimeters longer, the height 65 millimeters equal.

    Above all, fewer cells would be needed for the battery pack of a car. So far, Tesla built more than 7000 cells of the type 18650 for a 85-kilowatt-hour storage in the Model S. With the type 26650 cells this number could be reduced to about half, according to expert circles.

    So a cheaper and more efficient production is possible: For each cell must be in the factory for hours to be charged in a special machine for the first time. The fewer cells, the less these machines are needed and the faster a battery pack is ready for use in the car.

    "The investment costs could be halved in this area, the production rate could double," says battery expert Andreas crediting the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology. At the same time Tesla would not deviate from its battery-success recipe.

    So the larger cells should be filled with approximately the same as the old Chemiemixtur. It allows 30-40 percent higher energy density of Tesla batteries in comparison to its competitors.

    The larger cells also could be connected together quite similar and protect as the 18650. "They will be positioned more highly parallel", it called in industry circles.

    Tesla Partners Panasonic should endorse the size conversion without complaint. The Japanese have other conceivable formats already on offer. Panasonic, for the production of new, larger cells use the same machines as for the production of 18650 cells. The machines must be for only slightly adjusted.
    Therefore, the necessary machinery in large numbers were built for the Gigafactory, crediting is convinced. The market power of Tesla was so great that it simply worth.

    How much can Tesla actually reduce the battery cost?

    Odds are professionals but how much Tesla can really reduce the cost of batteries at the end. "Very large jumps are not possible for Tesla at the cost, it now comes on every penny," says crediting.

    An advantage brings the giant Tesla probably work in any case: Lower logistics costs. Because of the raw material processing on the cell production to compile and test the battery pack everything to take place under one roof.

    Currently, the cost is according to the company at 200 to $ 300 per kilowatt hour. A target price of about $ 130, as Guillen suggests him interviewed by manager magazin online, but in industry circles is considered extremely ambitious. "This is for the time being nothing."

    However, given a weak competition in the battery market is perhaps not necessary, says crediting. "If Tesla built this factory, the company has a dominant position."

     
  2. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Interesting.

    JB Straubel and Elon Musk said in the last quarterly earnings conference call that they estimated a change in battery cell structure might be a 10% increase in diameter accompanied by a 10% increase in height. The 18650 battery cells are 18 mm diameter, and 65 mm tall. So that would make for an increase to about 19.8 mm diameter by 71.5 mm tall. I suppose that might be called '20715' or '20720'...?

    This article calls out an existing format, the 26650 instead. That is 26 mm diameter by 65 mm tall.

    When you analyze the volume of cells... That means that the '20720' size would be 33% larger than the 18650. But the 26650 is much larger, with 108% more volume than the 18650.
     
  3. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I think the article is wrong by trying to apply an existing format instead of something new. I'm expecting a 20720 or close to it.
     
  4. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

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    The 20650 size mentioned in the mm article is pure speculation. I do remember an interview with a high up Tesal exec, maybe even Musk, who said that the optimum battery would be slightly longer AND have a slightly bigger diameter (emphasis on slightly, it was between 10 and 20% IIRC)
     
  5. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Article said 22650.
    Musk and/or JB said 10% longer and 10% larger diameter, which would be about 20720.
     
  6. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Dr. Anderman predicts 20700 format in his Tesla battery report. That is consistent with Elon's and JB's "about 10%" statements.

    I am betting he will be correct.

    GSP
     
  7. ToolMan

    ToolMan The ToolMan

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    Will this battery size increase and and less batteries in the pack change the degradation there seeing in current S and X packs? 5% 50,000 miles 8% 100,000 miles? Seems like it would be worst with less individual batteries. I hope I'm totally wrong and don't know enough about the technology.
     
  8. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Capacity loss has nothing to do with the number of cells. It's entirely dependent upon chemistry and usage.
     
  9. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    I love that this shows up in Feedly "Tesla Vice President Jerome Guillen has confirmed in an interview..." as from 14 hrs ago.

    Errr, can someone on the tech side here on TMC fix this? Would be great if feeds could go back to showing the latest post in a thread, not the first one.
     

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