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Glass rear window and sedan/liftback discussion

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by phil0909, Mar 30, 2017.

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  1. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    What nether region did you pull that from? Please allow me to tell people what I think, you can tell them what you think.
     
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  2. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Well, I assumed my messages would come across sufficiently in jest. But you did disagree with my messages of Elon liking glass. No?
     
  3. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    But seriously, @ohmman, you don't think it is possible Elon or Tesla designers willed the "glassback" into existence, practicality be damned?

    I mean, you don't think Model X structurally had to have the falcon wings either...

    I did concede your viewpoint was possible as well.
     
  4. alseTrick

    alseTrick Active Member

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    Why wait? They aren't completely redesigning it. They aren't going to make an S-like hatch.

    The frunk is irrelevant when it comes to storing large items in the rear of the car.
     
  5. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    It's possible, sure. It's also possible that Franz met a kid in an IKEA and he had scribbled the Model 3 final design on a receipt with a crayon.

    If I dealt only in possibles, I'd never get anywhere. A better question is what is probable.
     
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  6. shrspeedblade

    shrspeedblade Member

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    How it probably went:

    The challenge: maximize rear head room while also retaining a low drag coefficient on a relatively compact sedan

    The solution: expand the rear glass area (and it's REALLY COOL TOO! at least I'm sure they think so.)

    Whatever your position on the whole hatchback/sedan issue, you have to admit it is a rather unique, elegant solution to the design challenges, whether you like it or not.
     
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  7. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Falcon wings, non-folding monoposts, instrument cluster screen removal, ghost in the shield windshields etc. there are many possibilities that may not seem probable, but still are reality. :)

    But fair enough, we have mapped our views on this. I remain of the opinion Tesla could have made a gt/sportback of Model 3 had they wanted to. You believe there is science against that alternative. Neither of us knows and Tesla has reason(s) not to tell us and not to tell us openly/honestly anyway, because they need to market the thing... We won't know how it went down, possibly for years.

    As a general comment (not to ohmman): If one presses the Disagree button, don't be surprised if someone actually considers it your opinion and calls you out on it. Disagree button lacking context and explanation for your disagreement means it may come across more broadly than you intended, that's the nature of it. It is not just a one-way channel to make a message look bad.
     
  8. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

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    Cheaper bill of materials due to smaller size and reduced number of components, increased production volume, quality reduction for certain components, and simplified production?
     
  9. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Gigafactory.
     
  10. smac

    smac Active Member

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    I think this all stems from Tarpenning and Eberhard's departures (and to a lesser extent Daimler relationships deteriorating) myself. They were still very much in the picture when the Model S was being designed, and for better or worse why it is so "normal".
     
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  11. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    No. I disagreed with your message that that was the choice supported by science.

    Thank you kindly.
     
  12. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

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    When they have gigafactory made batteries for the S, they will not pass savings on to the customer?
     
  13. smac

    smac Active Member

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    Something like this?:
    [​IMG]

    Jaguar I-PACE Concept Car - First All Electric SUV | Jaguar USA

    @anxiety ranger: I see from your sig this may be on the cards, have you put a deposit down yet? (Disclaimer: I have)
     
  14. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

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    #74 zenmaster, Apr 1, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    The I-PACE looks good for what it is - an SUV/crossover, but I was thinking something with general shape and exterior volume of the smaller BMW sedans or gran coupe. In other words, ~10% smaller than the Model 3.
     
  15. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Good question. Probably not immediately, but who knows longer term...
     
  16. phil0909

    phil0909 Member

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    I concede unique. Elegant? Not even a little bit.

    I think you're likely right about how the design discussions went.
     
  17. Sonny Daze

    Sonny Daze Member

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    #77 Sonny Daze, Apr 1, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    I have actually described the interior we have seen to this point as something that would be designed by a 12 year old.

    A steering wheel and a tablet; can I go play now?
     
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  18. smac

    smac Active Member

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    Having seen one in the flesh, it's quite a bit smaller than a Model S, and probably the lowest SUV I've ever seen. Hard to pigeon hole it really, despite Jag claiming it's an SUV, it's sort of half way between a BMW 5 GT and an F-Pace.

    I guess it's sort of what I'm expecting the Y to be like.
     
  19. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Good for you! :)

    Not yet for me. I am still at the stage of musing the next step. I intend to replace one of my ICEs with an EV in the next two years or so... I-Pace is an interesting contender for that.

    The only concrete step so far is a Model 3 reservation from last year as one option, but truth be told I'm not really feeling that at the moment. I-Pace evokes some passion...
     
  20. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #80 stopcrazypp, Apr 1, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    The BMW GTs have the same problem as the Model S that Elon was trying to avoid. The rear beam and the hatch hinge mechanisms compromises rear headroom and makes the back more claustrophobic.
    "Sloping roof line cuts back on rear headroom and cargo-carrying flexibility; lacks the handling precision of other 3 Series models."
    2016 BMW 3 Series Gran Turismo - Buyers Guide | Autoweek
    "Curiously, BMW's measurements for rear headroom are very similar for the 3 Series sedan, wagon and Gran Turismo. This is just my guess, but I think the issue is the pair of internal protrusions in the headliner (where the C-pillars are) that occur in the GT because of its hatchback's hinge mechanisms. They're right where your head would normally be if you're sitting in the rear outboard positions and take up a couple inches of space. I doubt they are factored into those headroom measurements."
    Plenty of Legroom, but Headroom Can Be Tight - 2014 BMW 328i xDrive Gran Turismo Long-Term Road Test

    IMO, the styling also looks ugly.
     

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