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Glass rear window and sedan/liftback discussion

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by phil0909, Mar 30, 2017.

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  1. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    Apparently I have lost all track of car categories. How is this an SUV? And how the Model X, not?

    Thank you kindly.
     
  2. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    A mid point between the two gets you something like the Prius (and perhaps the 3 series GT), where the rear looks ugly, but at the same time it doesn't really solve the rear headroom issue (the hatchback mechanism is still there). That's why Toyota introduced the Prius V, which moved the styling back to closer to a traditional hatchback.
     
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  3. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    #83 AnxietyRanger, Apr 1, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    Ye of little faith. In the right hands the 3 Series GT could turn into a functional beauty.

    Audi has Audi A5 Sportback. Same size/class as Model 3.

    [​IMG]

    IMO Tesla likely just wanted that huge glass window...

    The new model:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

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    #84 zenmaster, Apr 1, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    The I-PACE is really only slightly smaller in exterior volume than the Model S.
    Googled these volumes (in³):
    Code:
    f-pace  186 x 82 x 65       = 991380
    audi a8 207 x 77 x 58       = 924462
    bmw 5gt 196.8 x 74.8 x 61.4 = 903847
    bmw 7   207 x 75 x 58       = 900450
    model s 196 x 77 x 57       = 860244
    i-pace  184 x 74.4 x 61.4   = 840541
    bmw 5   195 x 74 x 58       = 836940
    audi a6 194 x 74 x 58       = 832648
    audi a7 196 x 75 x 56       = 823200
    bmw m5  194 x 74 x 57       = 818292
    model 3 184 x 74 x 57       = 776112
    audi a4 186 x 73 x 56       = 760368
    mb c    185 x 71 x 57       = 748695
    bmw m4  185 x 74 x 54       = 739260
    a5 sb   186.3 x 72.6 x 54.6 = 738486
    mb c43  185 x 71 x 55       = 722425
    bmw m2  176 x 73 x 56       = 719488
    audi a5 182 x 73 x 54       = 717444
    bmw 3   179 x 71 x 56       = 711704
    bmw 4   183 x 72 x 54       = 711504
    bmw 2   175 x 70 x 56       = 686000
     
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  5. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    @ohmman I am waiting for your science on how Audi A5 Sportback is impossible.
     
  6. tomas

    tomas Only partially psycho

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    For what it is worth, I shall issue a proclamation that, on the evidence of your hundredth post on this thread, that @AnxietyRanger is officially on the permanent record as stating unequivocally that the Model 3 should have been a hatch in the style of a smaller model S. At your instruction, I will mail you a notarized and hermetically sealed original version of the proclamation on papyrus scroll that you can use to shoo away non-believers and save yourself the trouble of 100 more posts. :)
     
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  7. Laban

    Laban Member

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    Well, that decides it then. Tesla made the right decision to make the model 3 a "pure" sedan :)
     
  8. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Just because BMW made an ugly car does not mean the sportback/gran turismo form-factor is not beautiful or even classic.

    We have Model S to prove.

    And in Model 3 size/class the Audi A5 Sportback:

     
  9. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Cd is 0.29 on that vehicle. Not even close to 0.21.
     
  10. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Even you got to admit you can't know it is the back. It is very sleek. It is a great form-factor.

    We have Model S to prove it too.

    Is it possible Tesla tried the same and could not put their Cd magic into a hatch? Sure. But we don't know that. Wanting that glass design is quite plausible too...
     
  11. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    You're probably right. Elon said "design me a car that can have big glass in back. To hell with anything else."

    I concede.
     
  12. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the Cd is 0.26 for the 2017 Audi A5 Sportback. Just .1 worse than the same Coupé shape.
     
  13. smac

    smac Active Member

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    Interesting from a "footprint" perspective the IPace and Model 3 are so close!

    This is probably what I picked up on. Particularly it being noticeably narrower than my S
     
  14. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I guess this is a Euro vs. U.S. thing. I can not understand the opposition of a sporty hatch in these discussions. You talk as if it must be a Prius and it is impossible aero-wise anyway.

    I don't get that. Does the Model S form-factor really seem so foreign and strange to you? It is common enough in Europe. I see A5 Sportbacks every day. They are very popular.

    A5 Sportback is a very beautiful and functional Model S style form-factor in a Model 3 size car. It is not some impossible anomaly these threads make it sound like.
     
  15. Laban

    Laban Member

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    Sure, but Model S is hardly the car for you if you're worried about headroom in the backseat. The problem isn't making a hatchback with Model 3 dimensions, the problem is that you can't have your cake and eat it at the same time.
     
  16. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Audi A5 Sportback back seat is very nice for its class.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Jayc

    Jayc Member

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    I hope you are not referring to I-pace as being sleek, sure if we compare with a traditional ICE designs but Tesla is miles ahead in EV design fundamentals. I would put down a deposit for a Model Y today without seeing its alpha prototype yet would not even consider an I-pace.
     
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  18. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I am talking the Model 3 sized hatchback Audi A5 Sportback.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #99 stopcrazypp, Apr 1, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    This looks good because they kept the roof profile low, but is the same situation as the "mini-Model S" which we already know is possible (no one disputed that), but compromises rear headroom.

    947 mm rear headroom for UK specs
    https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/audi-a5-dimensions-0360

    974mm rear headroom for 3 series GT UK specs.
    2016 BMW 3 Series Gran Turismo 330dA SE Interior features - MSN Cars

    To make it clear, no one is saying that you can't have a mini-Model S, just that it'll have the same headroom issues, which Elon said was specifically the reason not to go with that design.

    If you want to keep a similar design and make room for headroom, you would have to move the roof beam back, which gets you to the uglier look of the 3 series GT (because the slope begins later).
     
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  20. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I felt a lot of people disputing that, so good to hear at least some are not.

    I get it that there are pros and cons to every shape of course. I have no problem with your post.
     

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