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Glass roof

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You quote my post just to say that you really really disagree. And gave absolutely no arguments.
Oh, checked your profile, you mostly disagree, so.. it appears to be normalo_O

At least I'm not alone thinking a manually inserted shade (which, by they way, actually costs like 5-15$ in Walmart)
is not "slightly" stupid on a vehicle that costs near 100 000 €, it actually very pitiful.
It is just slightly better than this:

2-pieces-car-side-window-sun-shade---suction-cup--cover-sunshade-12032761486.jpg


I would just inform you thing below costs 200€ as an option. And my car has that. It's 16 years old.
Sunshade1.png


And please don't reply if you give no information. Click on the small icons below my post, don't write what button did you push.

Fraid not. I clicked reply.
 
At least I'm not alone thinking a manually inserted shade (which, by they way, actually costs like 5-15$ in Walmart)
is not "slightly" stupid on a vehicle that costs near 100 000 €, it actually very pitiful.
It is just slightly better than this:

2-pieces-car-side-window-sun-shade---suction-cup--cover-sunshade-12032761486.jpg


I would just inform you thing below costs 200€ as an option. And my car has that. It's 16 years old.
Sunshade1.png

You're right you're not alone, but you are in the minority. There are any number or threads here and on the Tesla forums talking about people's concerns about the glass, the heat, the glare, the tinting, the cold, etc. The vast majority of them have been responded to by actual Tesla owners saying that it is not a problem. Yes, there are some people that don't like it but there are always going to be people like that. If the concern was a prevalent as you say it is then all cars would come with sunshades, but they don't.

If Tesla doesn't want to offer a built in shade as an option then they've either decided that either their current solution is acceptable for the majority of buyers, or that there are not enough people that get upset over to warrant the cost and effort of designing and engineering a built-in sunshade. People that disagree will need to accept it and either get an aftermarket one or a completely different car. No manufacturer can create a car that will do everything and have everything that everyone wants them to have and do at a price they can afford. As soon as manufacturer does that all the other ones can just close up shop.
 
List me vehicles (less than 20 years old), that have glass on roof and don't have integrated shade for it.
Dear arnis,
Look, we get it. You think the new model 3 should have a sunshade.
You have posted numerous messages to that effect.
Many people have replied to you with their experiences with actual Tesla cars.
You seem fixated on this.
This is not a good place to post product suggestions.
I suggest that you stop posting the same request over and over in an increasingly argumentative tone.
Please send your request to Tesla directly and stop spamming this forum.
 
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I think most of the newer materials they use on glass have much better anti-thermal properties than normal old auto glass that just blocks UV wavelength. Not an expert glass manufacturer so I'm not sure about the science behind it and what wavelengths it blocks/absorbs, but I remember fancy percentages being thrown around at the tinting place a couple years ago when talking about that. Seems to be backed up by the actual reports from Tesla owners with the glass roofs currently.
 
You're right you're not alone, but you are in the minority. There are any number or threads here and on the Tesla forums talking about people's concerns about the glass, the heat, the glare, the tinting, the cold, etc. The vast majority of them have been responded to by actual Tesla owners saying that it is not a problem. Yes, there are some people that don't like it but there are always going to be people like that. If the concern was a prevalent as you say it is then all cars would come with sunshades, but they don't.

If Tesla doesn't want to offer a built in shade as an option then they've either decided that either their current solution is acceptable for the majority of buyers, or that there are not enough people that get upset over to warrant the cost and effort of designing and engineering a built-in sunshade. People that disagree will need to accept it and either get an aftermarket one or a completely different car. No manufacturer can create a car that will do everything and have everything that everyone wants them to have and do at a price they can afford. As soon as manufacturer does that all the other ones can just close up shop.
As much as I personally dislike the glass roof, I entirely agree with your post. Well said.
 
This is not a good place to post product suggestions.

What the heck are you saying? What's wrong with people here. Is it a "fanboy" syndrome?
Just accept thing the way they are or go away? Is it a new American "freedom of speech"?

We already know (and knew in the beginning) that most early Tesla customers are so-called "advanced" users,
especially those who have forum account and reply to questions. Of course they are less critical (on average) than average users. And we can see that from regular car reviews which clearly state, that missing door pockets is a no-no. Whatever few hundred "advanced" users say, due to the reason they are already keen in the vehicle that is being judged, their vote is not as critical
as from those who have more expertise in all kind of vehicle models. This is more true for positive feedback.
Up until the moment somebody from Tesla verifies that he/she knows about the complaints, I'm not satisfied.
Few random forum users, who ARE satisfied, is not something that I (and many others) care. I've seen situations
where no shade is actually a real con, Big-T added one I didn't even think about. That's enough to make most people worry.
AFAIK, Bjorn is the only one who is definitely observed by Tesla. Hope his message arrives where it should.

I don't remember where and who mention that lack of something on a product that is competing in "main market territory" by
regular people is devastating for the success of that product in a tight competition. In other words unacceptable door sills
on BMW i8 are fine for the success of that vehicle, but are absolutely devastating for Corolla. Missing shade on 140 000€ is actually more acceptable than no shade on 40 000€. That's how things work. Usually people avoid extras that add hassle. But like some already mentioned, rear extended glass will not be an option. It's in the design of the vehicle.

PS: Model X has sun visors. And tint above that. Which is kinda fine because if Sun is low it is covered by the visor.
If it is high , it is not actually shining into iris. But M3 will have that same thing in the 2nd row with no visors. And with tint.
I bet Model X owners will verify that if they raise their head high enough and try to drive with no visor and sun shining
in the face through tinted section, it is still not acceptable.

Also please stop thinking about more tint. Windows are made to be transparent and to see through. Even when Sun is down. I've driven cars that have aftermarket tinted everything. Disgusting. And one of the missions of glass roof is to add visual spaciousness (in addition to literally adding space). Which will not happen with 80% tinted glass.
 
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...Also please stop thinking about more tint. Windows are made to be transparent and to see through. Even when Sun is down. I've driven cars that have aftermarket tinted everything. Disgusting. And one of the missions of glass roof is to add visual spaciousness (in addition to literally adding space). Which will not happen with 80% tinted glass.
The Tesla glass roof is tinted pretty dark, to the point that you really can't see through it from the outside, from what I've observed. But the view is fine from the inside:

Model S: All Glass Roof Customer Photos

Not something I want, though.
 
This is not a good place to post product suggestions.

What the heck are you saying? What's wrong with people here. Is it a "fanboy" syndrome?

Up until the moment somebody from Tesla verifies that he/she knows about the complaints, I'm not satisfied.

What @mspohr was saying was that this is not the place to make product complaints or suggestions. This site is not a Tesla site, it isn't monitored by Tesla, nor is even acknowledged by Tesla. If you want to voice something directly to Tesla you need to send it directly to Tesla. You can post your opinion and we can all debate it like we've done, but after a while your increasing hostility that no one is agreeing with you becomes tedious.
 
If temperature of the chocolate was measured before heating cycle I would even consider this as a piece of information.
But it wasn't. Therefore no real data was demonstrated. Real data is in specifications.
This is Ir-lamp with most of the energy radiated in Ir spectrum. This foil blocks 97% of that radiation
It blocks 50% of light (during dark time of the day it is a lot) and only 57% of Solar energy.
Crystalline foils are the best on the market.

For a car the fact that sunroof glass is most likely single layer with no air gap states that thermal energy will pass the glass well.
This is why snow melts on the windscreen if we use preheating before getting into the car. And windscreen is dual layer with slightly
better thermal insulation.
My bimmer has dual layer windows and snow/ice will never melt during a drive at temperatures below -10C 14F.
This helps a lot as it is diesel, it is so efficient that it can't even warm up to nominal temperature. At the same time
sunroof is single layer and will melt very fast if shade is not applied. Faster than windscreen as hot air stays near roof.

In conclusion: this tint blocks 57% of the radiation energy that gets into vehicle in sunny weather.
But it offers nothing for convective heat transfer. This is extremely important while vehicle is moving.
ESPECIALLY in cold climate due to Δt being much larger (5-15K vs 25-50K).
 
If temperature of the chocolate was measured before heating cycle I would even consider this as a piece of information.
But it wasn't. Therefore no real data was demonstrated. Real data is in specifications.
if you want a video with measurements

Automotive windshields are generally laminated glass the glass roof in the Teslas are laminated too

tesla-model-s-crash-test-gif-3.gif


No worries arnis, the Tesla Model 3 will be fine.
 
Your posts are so simple that it feels like you are trolling.
This time I even gave numbers. And you only quote the chocolate part.
I think you didn't get the part where I said how much energy is not passing the tint.
Not Ir energy, but solar energy. We drive under the Sun, not Ir-lamp.

Yes, roofs are usually laminated too. But M3-s rear window most likely will not be. Therefore I suspect neither will be the central part.

"fine" is not a measurement engineers give. Fine is when you get C in school.
I'm not satisfied with C.Even "Good" will not do. Either "very good" or "excellent".
 
Your posts are so simple that it feels like you are trolling.
This time I even gave numbers. And you only quote the chocolate part.
I think you didn't get the part where I said how much energy is not passing the tint.
Not Ir energy, but solar energy. We drive under the Sun, not Ir-lamp.

Yes, roofs are usually laminated too. But M3-s rear window most likely will not be. Therefore I suspect neither will be the central part.

"fine" is not a measurement engineers give. Fine is when you get C in school.
I'm not satisfied with C.Even "Good" will not do. Either "very good" or "excellent".
An IR lamp is a perfect use case as it demonstrates the properties of the film. It directly contradicts your statement that tinting doesn't help with heat.
 
Maybe I can approach this from a different angle.

I give the chances of Tesla including a built-in (non-mesh) sunshade at somewhere around 1 in 100,000. This is merely based on their actions to date with the Model S and X. For those who are dissatisfied with their choice, they'll have to weigh the other benefits of the vehicle against the potential detriment. The.. end?
 
I give the chances of Tesla including a built-in (non-mesh) sunshade at somewhere around 1 in 100,000. This is merely based on their actions to date with the Model S and X.

Model 3 would be the first mass market vehicle that doesn't have the shade.
I wouldn't give those kinds of odds. Especially on S/X based actions. It is very hard to add a shade later.
If roof is heavily curved I don't know how can retractable shade be added at all.
 
Maybe I can approach this from a different angle.

I give the chances of Tesla including a built-in (non-mesh) sunshade at somewhere around 1 in 100,000. This is merely based on their actions to date with the Model S and X. For those who are dissatisfied with their choice, they'll have to weigh the other benefits of the vehicle against the potential detriment. The.. end?
No, I seriously doubt it ....

Oh look, told you ....

Model 3 would be the first mass market vehicle that doesn't have the shade.
I wouldn't give those kinds of odds. Especially on S/X based actions. It is very hard to add a shade later.
If roof is heavily curved I don't know how can retractable shade be added at all.
 
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Model 3 would be the first mass market vehicle that doesn't have the shade.
I wouldn't give those kinds of odds. Especially on S/X based actions. It is very hard to add a shade later.
If roof is heavily curved I don't know how can retractable shade be added at all.
Model 3 is not going to have a shade. Look at S/X. Tesla doesn't think one is necessary and so they won't do it. It would be better for them to spend money on better glass than on a shade. The glass roof in my S works really well. As well as a well-insulated non-glass roof? No. It sounds like you can have a metal roof over the front seats so do that if it's important to you.

Where I live it gets Africa hot. The rear-facing seats get too hot for my kids because there are no air ducts back there. Even with a well-insulated metal roof it would get too hot. In the back seat, they (and those in the front seat) are perfectly fine even in very high temps and my kids love looking out the roof. It also gets quite cold here (9F or so for brief periods). Now our car is parked in an insulated garage so it's 55F when we start out in the morning but the heater has no problem keeping up.

Based on your posts on everything from roofs to chassis to drivetrains you apparently are a brilliant automotive engineer and you should go to work for Tesla or start your own car company. I have no loyalty to Tesla, they just have no competition and so I am a customer. Make a better car and I'll buy it.