Glass roof

[arnis]

Tesla also skipped coat-hangers and handles. And door pockets. Mass market will not tolerate that as well as with S/X.
Like you said, jump seats are actually no good. They would also be very cold in winter, not only hot in the summer.
There are also no good vents for Model 3 rear passengers. This vehicle class has rear center air vents and nothing more.

I'm just telling, that the tolerance of missing shade on S is as acceptable as missing door pockets on Model S.
And missing shade on 3 will be as tolerable as missing door pockets on model 3.

If somebody will say that missing door pockets on Model 3 is as OK as on S they they are clearly optimistic fanboys (or whatever absurdly brand loyal customers are called).

Just look on this picture and say Model 3 rear passengers will be fine compared to Model S jump seats:

 

[dsvick]

Tesla also skipped coat-hangers and handles. And door pockets. Mass market will not tolerate that as well as with S/X.
Like you said, jump seats are actually no good. They would also be very cold in winter, not only hot in the summer.
There are also no good vents for Model 3 rear passengers. This vehicle class has rear center air vents and nothing more.

I'm just telling, that the tolerance of missing shade on S is as acceptable as missing door pockets on Model S.
And missing shade on 3 will be as tolerable as missing door pockets on model 3.

If somebody will say that missing door pockets on Model 3 is as OK as on S they they are clearly optimistic fanboys (or whatever absurdly brand loyal customers are called).

Just look on this picture and say Model 3 rear passengers will be fine compared to Model S jump seats:

First, how do you know there are no good vents for the Model 3 rear passengers?
Second, most of your arguments are completely subjective, as well as having no frame of reference since your complaining about a car that you haven't even seen the final version of.
Third, it's been mentioned in a few places that the cars from the first reveal had no tinting on the windows so that people could see the inside and so it would draw attention to the large windows. The production version will not look like that.
Fourth, give it a rest, you're starting to sound like the people that said Tesla was making a huge mistake by not making it a hatch back. If you don't like it or if you think it won't work for you then don't get one.

 

[JeffK]

Tesla also skipped coat-hangers and handles. And door pockets. Mass market will not tolerate that as well as with S/X.
Like you said, jump seats are actually no good. They would also be very cold in winter, not only hot in the summer.
There are also no good vents for Model 3 rear passengers. This vehicle class has rear center air vents and nothing more.

I'm just telling, that the tolerance of missing shade on S is as acceptable as missing door pockets on Model S.
And missing shade on 3 will be as tolerable as missing door pockets on model 3.

If somebody will say that missing door pockets on Model 3 is as OK as on S they they are clearly optimistic fanboys (or whatever absurdly brand loyal customers are called).

Both Model X and the Model 3 prototype have door pockets.
I, for one, don't want the coat-hanger or handles. The only person I've ever seen use a handle was my grandmother before she died. I've used the coat hanger once in my life and regretted it because it blocked the view out of that window. Might as well have laid it flat.

Rear center vents are fine. The vent is there for the rear seats. Many cars don't have rear vents at all.

Why in the world would you need a shade? Don't buy the glass roof if you only want to cover it up.

 

[tga]

Where I live it gets Africa hot. ... It also gets quite cold here.

Don't forget tornados. I think OK may have the worst overall weather in the lower 48.

 

[Snow Drift]

I don't need door pockets or handles, my wife calls them OS (oh sh!t) handles. I just need decent cup holders and a center/armrest cubby space for my iPhone and wallet (get out of my pocket!)

 

[alseTrick]

Just look on this picture and say Model 3 rear passengers will be fine compared to Model S jump seats:

There are only two logical explanations for you to make this same exact remark even after I already debunked it for you earlier in this thread. The "nicest" explanation being that you're just a troll.

Earlier in the thread, you said you wanted this:

So I posted:

 

[gregincal]

Tesla also skipped coat-hangers and handles. And door pockets. Mass market will not tolerate that as well as with S/X.
Like you said, jump seats are actually no good. They would also be very cold in winter, not only hot in the summer.
There are also no good vents for Model 3 rear passengers. This vehicle class has rear center air vents and nothing more.

I'm just telling, that the tolerance of missing shade on S is as acceptable as missing door pockets on Model S.
And missing shade on 3 will be as tolerable as missing door pockets on model 3.

If somebody will say that missing door pockets on Model 3 is as OK as on S they they are clearly optimistic fanboys (or whatever absurdly brand loyal customers are called).

Just look on this picture and say Model 3 rear passengers will be fine compared to Model S jump seats:

So let me get this straight. You aren't asking for a sunroof shade for the optional glass roof on the 3, you are asking for a rear window shade because the 3 has a large rear window. I don't know of any mass market cars that have a rear window shade (probably not even legal). A shade that pulls over half the window? Seems strange.

 

[strider]

Tesla also skipped coat-hangers and handles. And door pockets. Mass market will not tolerate that as well as with S/X.
Like you said, jump seats are actually no good. They would also be very cold in winter, not only hot in the summer.
There are also no good vents for Model 3 rear passengers. This vehicle class has rear center air vents and nothing more.

I'm just telling, that the tolerance of missing shade on S is as acceptable as missing door pockets on Model S.
And missing shade on 3 will be as tolerable as missing door pockets on model 3.

If somebody will say that missing door pockets on Model 3 is as OK as on S they they are clearly optimistic fanboys (or whatever absurdly brand loyal customers are called).

So now you're an expert on what denotes success in the global automotive marketplace?

You don't know what the "mass market" wants, you can't even define the mass market. Lots of vehicles (SUVs and minivans) are moving to vary large glass roofs like Model 3. You can't get more "mass market" than a minivan. I believe you have missed the fact that glass technology has progressed beyond this:

As I said before, the pano roof in my Model S works just fine in a variety of weather for the front and back seats. The jump seats can get hot but the jump seats also got hot in the large station wagons of my youth and those didn't even have back seat vents, only front seat and tint technology was primitive. In Model 3 both front and rear passengers will have vents and so it will be quite comfortable.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm a realist. You say that Tesla "must do this" or "must do that". I'm telling you that they won't. I've been involved w/ this company for 7 years now. As of now Tesla has almost no competition (Bolt may be competition for low end Model 3, depends on the feature set of the low end Model 3) and so they can very easily get away without doing things that you insist they "must do."

Also, much of what you list as must haves for the mass market are European things, or more specifically, German things, since they make all the cars in Europe. I for one DETEST German car's obsession with 5,000 buttons. Have you looked inside a Porsche lately? That to me is a sign of terrible design. The car should just work, not make me have to figure out which of 10,000 possible combinations of transmission, engine, suspension, etc is best for the given situation. So following the Germans can be a huge mistake.

Tesla will release Model 3 as-is and refine from there. If competition arises they may very well have to make adjustments. Until then you have to decide if you want a Model 3 or wait for Tesla to refine in the direction you want or a competitor arises that satisfies your needs. Hopefully for you BMW will make a 3-series EV or Audio an A4 EV soon. It sounds like that's what you want.

 

[strider]

Don't forget tornados. I think OK may have the worst overall weather in the lower 48.

Ha! No, that title must be bestowed on Chicago. It not only gets Africa hot there it also gets cold and stays cold for long periods and it snows. Here it only gets below freezing for a day or two then warms up into the 40's for weeks. Snow is also quite rare here and if it does snow it warms up w/in a day or 2 (see above) and melts. You don't have 10ft snow drifts that linger for months.

 

[Spidy]

So let me get this straight. You aren't asking for a sunroof shade for the optional glass roof on the 3, you are asking for a rear window shade because the 3 has a large rear window. I don't know of any mass market cars that have a rear window shade (probably not even legal). A shade that pulls over half the window? Seems strange.

Well, at least to this extent it exists.

 

[boiler81]

My wife's last few Mercedes had the powered rear window shade, and in the Pacific NW, we never used it. That being said, her 2016 C300 does have a powered shade for both sections of the pano roof. We use it in the winter when there's nothing to see thru it but clouds, to give us the feeling of insulated glass (not sure it really keeps the interior any warmer).
Due the size of the rear glass section, I doubt there will be anything but factory tinting to address light/heat infiltration, and I'm OK with that.

 

[dsvick]

Speaking of "must haves" .. how about those plaid seats!!

 

[arnis]

I think it's pointless to continue as no reasonable arguments have been given, only that "I can live without it".
a) not-tinted glass gives better view outside, especially when it not mid-day with no clouds.
b) tinted glass does not keep heat in nor block noise.
and some other things as well... but that's too much for primitive brain. So let me just keep those two as main arguments.

All other manufacturers that offer optional sunroof have shade in the price of the option. BMW asks 1700€ for panoramic sunroof.
I'm sure the shade part costs less than 10% of the whole price. Just because some don't need it it's unreasonable to not make it.

 

[strider]

I think it's pointless to continue as no reasonable arguments have been given, only that "I can live without it".
a) not-tinted glass gives better view outside, especially when it not mid-day with no clouds.
b) tinted glass does not keep heat in nor block noise.
and some other things as well... but that's too much for primitive brain. So let me just keep those two as main arguments.

All other manufacturers that offer optional sunroof have shade in the price of the option. BMW asks 1700€ for panoramic sunroof.
I'm sure the shade part costs less than 10% of the whole price. Just because some don't need it it's unreasonable to not make it.

No. The reasonable argument is that with as much glass is in the Model 3 it would be hard/difficult to do for something few people want. This is the EXACT opposite argument you were making in the Ludicrous thread. Why should those of us who don't want a screen have to pay for the engineering and chassis modifications required to make it an option? The glass in the Model 3 is MUCH larger than in a BMW. Changes would have to be made to the doors, beams across the roof (possibly requiring larger beams/different crash testing), etc. Just play all your posts in the Ludicrous thread back again here and you have your answer.

Have you even seen modern tint? It does a great job of letting you see out and not see in, even at night. A shade that you could put over the rear window like in that MB review above would add zero thermal or noise insulation. You could do a thicker one that motors from the center crash bar rearwards and stops before it blocks the rearview mirror but that would require extensive modifications to that center crossbar so see your anti-Ludicrous argument again about chassis engineering for an option few people would order. So once again we're left with the small piece of glass above the front seats. If you want thermal/noise insulation get the metal roof.

 

[arnis]

If you get metal roof you will still have glass above rear passengers. Would be fine if that also would be metal, but it's not.
Therefore choosing metal roof solves nothing for a vehicle as a whole, maybe front passengers.

The price for the sunroof I mentioned is not that small. It's a touring. Definitely bigger than middle part glass of Model3.

Shade doesn't require anything structural for the vehicle IF there is a glass roof already. Yes, with metal roof option and shade only for rear window, that would add to base trim. But let's assume shade (incl rear window) would only be available for those cars that opt for one of the glass roof options. Or even only one that doesn't open.

 

[strider]

You continue to ignore the words of many people who have driven Model S's for quite some time in hot climates and cold who say that the glass roof works just fine.

Look at the roof of the Model 3 from the inside. Where would the shade be stored? If it would be of sufficient thickness to add thermal and sound insulation it would add significant bulk to the interior and decrease rear seat headroom. I would rather them spend the time/money on the variable tint capability where you can vary the light passing through from 0-100 by applying current to crystals sandwiched between the glass.

As I said in my last post. Please go lobby BMW and Audi to build an electric 3-series/A4. That is what you want. Tesla will not build that car.

 

[Topher]

A shade that you could put over the rear window like in that MB review above would add zero thermal or noise insulation.

A shade like that will change the thermal performance of the window. How much, I couldn't say without actually testing it.

Thank you kindly.

 

[gregincal]

If you get metal roof you will still have glass above rear passengers. Would be fine if that also would be metal, but it's not.
Therefore choosing metal roof solves nothing for a vehicle as a whole, maybe front passengers.

The price for the sunroof I mentioned is not that small. It's a touring. Definitely bigger than middle part glass of Model3.

Shade doesn't require anything structural for the vehicle IF there is a glass roof already. Yes, with metal roof option and shade only for rear window, that would add to base trim. But let's assume shade (incl rear window) would only be available for those cars that opt for one of the glass roof options. Or even only one that doesn't open.

Where does the sun shade go? There's nothing but glass on the Model 3, so I don't see where you stick a shade.

 

[EvanLin]

You continue to ignore the words of many people who have driven Model S's for quite some time in hot climates and cold who say that the glass roof works just fine.

It didn't. Especially panoramic roof.

Bjorn said "constant chill from above" from 0:35, tho it's an X, similar issue.

Rear pano roof is only made for manufacturing, nothing practical AT ALL!
Tesla had several poor UX designs before. I just can't believe they did it again on 3!!

1. People don't tilt their head up and over (or turn more than 90 deg) for the "rear" pano view.
2. People tilt head up a little (usually less than 45 deg) for the view, so the crossbar of 3 even blocks more view because of the bigger rear pano glass. For an ordinary-size rear glass, there is less problem with crossbar.
3. Pano glass only makes sense when fitted in "front".

 

[arnis]

Look at the roof of the Model 3 from the inside. Where would the shade be stored? If it would be of sufficient thickness to add thermal and sound insulation it would add significant bulk to the interior and decrease rear seat headroom.

Where does the sun shade go? There's nothing but glass on the Model 3, so I don't see where you stick a shade.

Please, I already posted random solution from Kia. Works perfectly.SKIP TO 00:44

There is enough room to fit a shade in Model3 for optional middle part and standard rear glass part, and also Model S option sunroof. And also Model X windscreen.