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Global Car Makers Announce 15-Minute EV Charging Standard

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by EdA, May 5, 2012.

  1. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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  2. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    "Combined Charging System is the result of collaborative efforts between Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen."

    ... Which one of those makes a BEV?
     
  3. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Audi: ?? (Audi Duo PHEV)
    BMW: i3 (Mini-E, and Active-E)
    Chrysler: Fiat 500 electric (EPIC minivan)
    Daimler: Smart ED
    Ford: Focus Electric (Ranger EV and Th!nk City)
    GM: Spark EV (EV1)
    Porsche: ??
    VW: Golf Electric (plus older model whose name escapes me)

    GSP
     
  4. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    I appreciate the lineup of vehicles. I had no idea many of those were going to be available in 2013. However, the 15 minute charge appears to be oriented to a Leaf or Smart type of low range vehicle, not the 85kwh monster battery packs from Tesla.

    Audi: none available yet
    BMW: none available yet (2013 launch)
    Chrysler: none available yet (but could be later this year)
    Daimler: Yay! The Smart Four2 is available. Cute too.
    Ford: none available yet (I see 2012 is advertised with reservations being taken, but none available right now)
    GM: none available yet (apparently 2000 become available in 2013 in california?)
    Porsche: none available yet (none on the horizon)
    VM: none available yet (2013 maybe?)
     
  5. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    Anyone know the power ratings on the connections?

    If it handles something like:

    - 400 V three phase, 50 kW
    - 230 V three phase, 30 kW
    - 230 V one phase, 20 kW
    - DC 100 kW

    I'll be happy, as it's not a minimal short-term solution.
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Fast 3 phase AC on that connector? I wonder if they are going to put L2 and L3 on the big "DC" pins?
     
  7. GSP

    GSP Member

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    I think this SAE/ISO/IEEE Standard uses the Mennekes connector with optional high current DC pins to handle 3-phase AC, not the J1772 connector pictured. Like a lot of "standards" these days, there is a menu of standard methods to pick from.

    GSP
     
  8. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    So the three big questions:
    1. Does this announcement really mark a meeting of the minds of a "majority of the world's carmakers", i.e. will this end the muddle of charging options in Europe and North America?
    2. What will happen to CHAdeMO now?
    3. How will Tesla react?
     
  9. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Can't be or you wouldn't be able to use existing J1772 stations with the new cars. Also having Mennekes and 3 phase on the big pins would be pointless.

    Everyone moving to this (with the AC round section being J1772) does work from a back compatibility point of view, however.
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    In case it isn't clear, this standard encompasses 2 different connectors.
    In the US, it will be J1772-DC (as pictured).
    In Europe, it will be Mennekes with the two extra DC ports (not pictured here).
    There will be no Mennekes connectors used in the US and if you import a Euro-market car directly from Europe with CCS, it won't work in the US without an adapter.

    I saw this specified in a document somewhere, but can't find it at the moment. The idea is that the footprint of these to connectors will be the same, so the connector opening in the car can remain the same and the automaker can just swap in the necessary Level-2 connector according to the market and everything else can pretty much remain the same.
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    In Europe, the top half used for Level-2 charging will be just a Mennekes socket, so the ratings will be exactly the same as Mennekes (I think it's 43kW 3 phase, and 20kW one phase). On the DC side, it should be about 100kW (250kW support was proposed).

    In the US, the top half will be J1772, which is 20kW single phase (no 3 phase support). DC should be the same 100kW.
     
  12. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    So far, the plan of european auto manufacturers was to use the european Mennekes, but with the additional DC pins operating compatible with the SAE combo DC pins. So two different inlets and plugs, but of similar size. Could this mean that in 2017, those european manufacturers will drop Mennekes? Or is it PR trying to make it sound a bit better than it is?

    In the side column is this sentence:

    This again would appear to indicate that the commonality is only in the DC part (and the similar size).
     
  13. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Last I've seen was 90 kW, but maybe they increased by 10 kW. 250 kW is on the paper for the next level standard, which will likely be a different plug and inlet. (DC Level 2 vs DC Level 3).

    It's also worth pointing out that 90 KW (or 100kW) is the maximum allowed, and doesn't mean that the cars and/or charging stations will actually be 90 kW.
     
  14. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    They sold us HD. When we found out it didn't do what the standard is capable of, they sold us "HD ready". Buyers irate with interoperability issues were directed to the "final" solution which was labelled "true HD". Then it was all well and done.

    We'll see how an interoperable vehicle charging standard will be put into real life cars. But I sense great potential for another how-to-turn-customers-away etude.
     
  15. de704

    de704 XP268

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    My only sugestion is when you see a site like the one you referenced with an ad next to the title is find the origonal site. You linked to an autoblog which sole purpose is to slap and ad ontop on other peoples content, automaticaly. I found the origonal story on engadget.

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/04/automakers-unite-on-20-minute-ev-charging/
     
  16. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    Thanks, as usual, the comments have the best reading :smile:
     
  17. W.Petefish

    W.Petefish Active Member

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    I bet TM's response will go a little something like this:
    DILLIGAF. Then they will make an adaptor.
     
  18. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    "The great thing about standards is how many there are to choose from."

    Tesla's pile of adapter cables is going to be the standard for several more years.
     
  19. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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