FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
By the by, what's the interior noise level for the Model S? The Model 3?
Just to compare and contrast with the Bolt and Leaf.
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GM Bolt Test Drive Experience
- Thread starter MDR SEA
- Start date
By the by, what's the interior noise level for the Model S? The Model 3?
Just to compare and contrast with the Bolt and Leaf.
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Your statement that fast DC charging was originally "an option" on the S is I believe incorrect.
Every Model S was built with fast DC charging hardware but when the car was launched in mid-2012 the Supercharger network did not exist and Tesla had not announced it. A few months after launch Tesla revealed the first Superchargers on I5 in central California and all Model S owners could use them.
The Bolt does have a DC charging option but at less than half the rate of what Tesla currently provides. It's a good first step for GM but they are way behind Tesla.
The C&D test sheets for the various Model S tests are all over the place, even on the same test vehicle (long term test).
The 2015 long term P85D got 36, 73, 66 on the final testing. But the initial one got 28, 75, and 73... but the numbers don't work out. 71.2 + 71.8 should be 71.5 average, or 72, not 75. And 70 mph cruising was louder than WOT? That doesn't jive with their later test. I suspect they transposed two numbers... 71.2 + 75 is 73 WOT, and 71 @ 70 mph. That is at least closer to their final test sheet. It's basically the same as the Bolt using those numbers, or much better than the Bolt if you use their final sheet.
The 2015 70D test got this:
Idle: 37
WOT: 68
70 CR: 64
That's much quieter than the Bolt, about the same as the Leaf. There is so much variance with the idle one that I suspect that it can't be compared, especially at much lower sound levels.
They also didn't bother testing for sound levels in the P90D instrumented test.
The 2014 S60 got:
Idle: 32
WOT: 72
70 CR: 67
I do wonder how balloon squeal shows up in the sound meter versus, say, V8 rumble. Sound levels without characterizing the sounds themselves is likely misleading.
Also, the 2016 Nissan Leaf 30 kWh test has sound levels pretty much the same as the Bolt at 28/71/69
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"...Supercharging hardware is standard on Model S vehicles equipped with an 85 kWh battery and optional on Model S vehicles equipped with a 60 kWh battery."
Tesla reveals Supercharger network it says will cover the US in two years; Model S fills up for free, always
This certainly ranks as one of the more arcane bits of Tesla history. Actually the initial batch of Model S 60's were built without Supercharging hardware. They did retrofit virtually all of them IIRD, just as virtually all of the tiny number of 40's were upgraded to 60's.
My awareness of this issue came from a ride I had in one of those very early cars during TMC Connect 2015. A colleague had rented one of them, and we learn about the 40's upgraded to 60's, in the early incarnation of what they alter did with 60's upgradable to 75's. Those first 60's and 40's had Supercharging hardware added later. There certainly were not large numbers of them.
Hopefully GM will accept logic and make DC Fast standard on Bolts. They might also try to explain the various charing options accurately and demonstrate the various adapters needed for public charging. Tesla seems to have been a pioneer in that respect too.
Get a sound meter and find out yourself.
I neither doubt nor believe the C&D numbers.
Road surface, tire design, tire wear/pressure, and wind speed and direction are the biggest factors in EVs.
It can vary wildly. 45mph can go from 42 db to 72 db using a meter located near the gear shift on an EV depending on the pavement alone.
Why did I bother testing? The sound level reported by the Leaf was nearly 10 times lower than my office with the door closed and acoustic 8' ceiling with LED troffers and AC off (38db). It's pretty quiet.
In the quietest room I could find in an empty house with AC off, it could match the Leaf numbers. Not realistic for an automobile considering you do not use them inside a quiet garage with nobody home and all devices off.
The coolest thing? At quiet levels, just breathing normally through your nose can increase db by 4 inside a car. So I had to hold my breath for all readings.
I neither doubt nor believe the C&D numbers.
Road surface, tire design, tire wear/pressure, and wind speed and direction are the biggest factors in EVs.
It can vary wildly. 45mph can go from 42 db to 72 db using a meter located near the gear shift on an EV depending on the pavement alone.
Why did I bother testing? The sound level reported by the Leaf was nearly 10 times lower than my office with the door closed and acoustic 8' ceiling with LED troffers and AC off (38db). It's pretty quiet.
In the quietest room I could find in an empty house with AC off, it could match the Leaf numbers. Not realistic for an automobile considering you do not use them inside a quiet garage with nobody home and all devices off.
The coolest thing? At quiet levels, just breathing normally through your nose can increase db by 4 inside a car. So I had to hold my breath for all readings.
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SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
All it took for me was sitting in Bolt at the auto show for 5 seconds to realize the whole reason it exists... is to make sure people DO NOT buy electric cars.
GM has been making cars for 100s of years... and yet immediately the seat pinches my butt. Within 5 seconds it was uncomfortable. As designed. I'm not a large person, but seriously, a painful seat?!
The Bolt has one purpose. Compliance, and intentional low sales to drive people away from EVs.
Then GM can say 'EVs don't sell'...
I'd love for some private memo to leak about intentionally making it crap... that would be awesome.
GM has been making cars for 100s of years... and yet immediately the seat pinches my butt. Within 5 seconds it was uncomfortable. As designed. I'm not a large person, but seriously, a painful seat?!
The Bolt has one purpose. Compliance, and intentional low sales to drive people away from EVs.
Then GM can say 'EVs don't sell'...
I'd love for some private memo to leak about intentionally making it crap... that would be awesome.
I don’t know your body shape, but I’m a typical middle-aged American male at 5 feet 9 inches and 50 pounds overweight. The Bolt’s seats fit me fine even during ~8 hour a day road trips.
Could the seats be more comfortable? Probably. But they are certainly at least adequate for many people and could also easily have been worse.
Those incompetent fools at GM failed again!
The Bolt EV’s sales have been steadily increasing and were 2,600 last month. I see them all over the place now in the SF Bay Area as in 6-8 of them a day while commuting.
If GM were really trying for poor sales why would they put in the only non-Tesla 60 kWh battery, why package it in a trendy CUV form factor, why give it 200 HP and 0-60 in 6.5 seconds? Why give it GM’s largest LCD infotainment screen (same used by Cadillac)? Or the rear view camera mirror also shared only with a Cadillac model? Why give it’s battery pack a liquid active thermal management system? Would a car designed to turn off BEV customers be able to turn in a laptime at Laguna Seca raceway that was very competitive with Tesla cars in this year’s race, beat every other non-Tesla production car this year, and that beat every Tesla entry from the previous year?
Another clue: why did GM implement an excellent and innovative one-pedal driving mode better than any previous EV? You think they did it as part of a conspiracy to drive people away from EVs?
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SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
It's 'okay', but nothing more. Looks like a glorified Honda Fit. Or GM's own Aveo/Sonic hatch.Don't forget it's ugly too
They should've 'clean-sheeted' it, but obviously, that would've cost major bucks.
And maybe that's the important point of contention... exactly how hardcore is GM about the EV market, really?
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SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
GM can style a car... they have several they took the time to make look good. The Bolt... not so much.
As for the shape of my posterior, the person who tried sitting in the car after me, said the exact same thing. (He did not know I said the seats were awful).
that "big screen from caddy"? Yea... I don't think it actually has GPS or the ability to find a charger. Cuz... that's cool right?
And, having a co-worker who owned a caddy... you want to run from anything made by GM that resembles tech... because it doesn't work...
I have a 09 Tahoe. I also know GM tech. I can also verify... it don't work. GM is old school and should have went bust several times over by now. And don't think I'm Tesla bias... I didn't buy an X, even though I prefer SUVs... because it too.. is ugly.
As for the shape of my posterior, the person who tried sitting in the car after me, said the exact same thing. (He did not know I said the seats were awful).
that "big screen from caddy"? Yea... I don't think it actually has GPS or the ability to find a charger. Cuz... that's cool right?
And, having a co-worker who owned a caddy... you want to run from anything made by GM that resembles tech... because it doesn't work...
I have a 09 Tahoe. I also know GM tech. I can also verify... it don't work. GM is old school and should have went bust several times over by now. And don't think I'm Tesla bias... I didn't buy an X, even though I prefer SUVs... because it too.. is ugly.
Not sure where you're going with this, comparing a 2011 Leaf with a 2017 Volt but....
I offered my impression of the Bolt vs the competition.
I suggest that you
All it took for me was sitting in Bolt at the auto show for 5 seconds to realize the whole reason it exists... is to make sure people DO NOT buy electric cars.
GM has been making cars for 100s of years... and yet immediately the seat pinches my butt. Within 5 seconds it was uncomfortable. As designed. I'm not a large person, but seriously, a painful seat?!
You may have been sitting in the Harvey Weinstein Signature model...
Actually it's more a matter of "why didn't they"
1. Adaptive cruise control
2. Charge station navigation
3. Study the competition for "smooth and quiet"
I'm curious Jeff, do you own a Bolt?
Cheers
MDR
You suggest that I.... what?
I compared the C&D noise readings from the 2011 LEAF with a 2017 Bolt EV (not Volt) because that was the noise comparison that I had made myself in my 5 year old recollection of driving a LEAF. Techmaven subsequently posted a later C&D noise measurement from a 2015 30 kWh LEAF that wasn’t all that different from the Bolt at WOT and 70 mph.
The Bolt was developed on a relatively quick schedule and GM has been a little slow to add ACC on their cars generally. It first appeared on the Volt PHEV in the 2017 model year rather than in the 2nd generation Volt’s introduction in 2016. My guess is that they either ran short on Bolt EV development time or perhaps they planned to introduce ACC in 2018 to entice more sales after the initial rush of early adopters bought 2017s.
GM chose to delegate navigation to Apple and Google via their CarPlay and Android Auto platforms. It’s reasonable to assume that Apple and Google will enhance their map applications with this capability soon based on the relatively quick apparent emergence of electric vehicles in the market.
In the meantime, GM recently added charge station navigation planning to their “myChevrolet” smartphone app for the Bolt EV but it needs more work and the final multi-segment route plan doesn’t integrate well automatically with Apple’s map app (dunno about Android).
This is an area that needs a lot of improvement for inexperienced EV drivers on road trips. With a bit more experience, I get by okay with using PlugShare and then using Apple’s map app with the next immediate route segment.
The motor noise in the Bolt is mostly apparent during acceleration or regen. Steady driving is mostly road and wind noise and isn’t particularly noisy to my ears. Some people like the motor whir. I’m neutral.
I’m not sure why you think the Bolt isn’t “smooth”. Perhaps you can describe your criticism in more detail. Were you driving in low-regen ‘D’ or high-regen ‘L’ mode? The LEAF has had relatively weak regen even when they later added a ‘B’ mode to provide a somewhat stronger regen mode. I find driving the Bolt to be a real joy and mostly drive in ‘L’.
Yes, I have a ~100 mile daily round trip commute which I power with 100% renewable wind/solar from the grid. As I said earlier in this thread:
Actually, the Bolt does have GPS. It uses it for OnStar’s downloadable turn-by-turn navigation instructions which use text and voice prompts (but not maps) to guide the driver to a destination. It also uses its GPS to support location-based charging behavior preferences.
No, but I have driven Tesla vehicles on several occasions including borrowing an S P85 for a week so I could do a ~1,300 mile road trip to Las Vegas for CES in January earlier this year. I used Superchargers and drove the car both on the highway and on local streets each day during the convention.
I actually prefer driving the Bolt because of its higher seating position, easier ingress and exit, and better one-pedal driving feel. The advantages of the P85 are larger cargo storage, more room if carrying 3 rear seat passengers, faster acceleration, faster and more available DC charging, and higher status (more expensive, sexier car). But, I didn’t need more storage, I never had 3 passengers in the back seat and I never felt the need to accelerate faster than I could in my Bolt.
Although the P85 charged at a higher power it was less efficient which somewhat offset that advantage. I had to wait for 20 minutes once at a Supercharger location. Because it charges faster, I sometimes worried about it finishing too soon before I had a chance to finish eating at a restaurant. At other times, I found myself waiting around for it to reach a target charge level so I could leave.
The overall level of convenience during fast charging was not all that different to my experiences driving to Las Vegas or Los Angeles in my Bolt using 50 kW CCS charging. The long range battery capacity is what makes road trips enjoyable. The only BEVs that do that today are Tesla vehicles or the Bolt EV. Overall, I prefer driving either the P85 or my Bolt to driving a gas car even on long road trips as long as DC 50+ kW charging or overnight hotel charging is available.
I drove my friends Bolt when they first came out. I thought the driver seat would not be comfortable for a long trip however if the car had come out earlier I would have bought one. I needed an EV with range and the Bolt would have worked. That being said now that the model 3 is coming out I would buy it instead. I like the looks of the model 3 better. We have a reservation for a model 3 for my wife.
igotzzoom
Active Member
The OP's review seems mildly trollish. As stated, "to each their own." Two people can have very different impressions of the same car. Most reviews I've read of the Bolt have been relatively positive. I will not buy one, but not for the reason of driving dynamics or objective virtues, or lack thereof. I think it's just an unbearably homely car.
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