GM Chevy Volt

[scaesare]

Man, posting late in the evening from my tablet makes me wish I could still edit the next morning to correct my typos...

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Again, "in normal operation" for the first ~15% of it's range. So it's very much dependent on the driver deciding to only drive it a fraction of it's rated range.



Agreed...iPhone users I suspect value the user experience more so than technical specs, hence their willingness to pay a premium for a platform that is often inferior from a specification standpoint than other platforms.

But I'd turn that question around: "How many Android users care about the phone architecture and specs more than the 'Apple user experience'?" I'd say "most".



Given that there' obviously a contingent that cares about both, the answer to satisfying both is to correctly define what the design actually IS, and then extol the unique virtues of it..

"BEV" is a category with many vehicles of vastly different capabilities within it depending on battery type, battery capacity, motors power, cooling capability number of motors, charging capability, etc... So advertise what your vehicle can do, and emphasize it's positive aspects, but don't ignore the fact there's an accepted definition of it's top-level category.

In the same way "Hybrid" is a category with vehicles of many different capabilities depending on battery type, drivetrain layout, ICE type/size, power-split implementation, etc... So again extol the virtues of your specific implementation within that category, but don't make up new categories or misrepresent what it is, when existing accepted categories already exist.

Be technically corre3ct, and advertise the user experience. That way you satisfy both camps.

Honestly, take a look at this thread. I don't think many folks are denigrating the Volt and saying it's "Just a hybrid", as if that's a dirty word. It's probably the best hybrid out there. Just as the Tesla is the best BEV out there. My opinion is that Volt owners are a bit sensitive to the subject, and I quite honestly lay most of that blame at the feet of GM, who put the Volt enthusiasts/owners on the defensive with their misleading portrayal.

I suggest folks don't take criticism of the attempts to correct GM's disingenuousness as criticisms of the car or it's owners.

But the real nub is that some people think that an "EREV" is a huge distinction. You don't. I do.

I really don't care whether there's an SAE definition, to me it's an obvious distinction that acts as a useful filter. Like saying "Hey everybody, can you suggest a good pick-up?" rather than "Hey everybody, can you suggest a good vehicle with a flat, open bed behind the rear seats?".

But I also don't care what the name is and I think GM shot itself in the foot by trying to marketect the word hybrid out.

So in an attempt to bridge the divide I'm going to make up a couple of definitions.

VVPHEV: Very Very Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. It is defined as: a PHEV that can do everything it does without using the engine; and don't try to be clever, you know _exactly_ what I mean.
VPHEV: Very Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. It is defined as: a PHEV that has full-performance in EV mode, but caveats that mean that it might have to run the engine, such as a top EV speed that's above the speed limit almost everywhere , or a heating system that can't handle what some of us call "proper cold".

So, the Volt and Prime are VPHEVs, and the i3 REx is a VVPHEV.

If you think (vee) vee pee aitch ee vee is a bit of a mouthful, you can say vuh-fuv or vuh-vuh-fuv.

I'm hoping the new definitions will go viral. After I die, I'd like to live on in an etymological reference.

 

[Takumi]

I've yet to see a golf cart do 0->60 mph in under 8 seconds (Motor Trend and C+D tests), nor sustain 100 mph.



If the Volt was "just a Prius with a larger battery" (e.g., a Chevy equivalent to a PiP), I never would have bought one. Once I realized what GM had done with the design, I was like "heck yeah - that would be perfect". Then it was just a matter of waiting for the Gen 2 to come out.

Pure BEV Dogma post #1373 summarizes what I implied.

Tesla changes people's perception of an electric car from a golf cart to a rocket.

We want the Volt to change the perception of hybrids to something more positive to get more people off of gas - the end goal. What GM's marketecture has done is eff up the perception of electric cars:

"I thought it can only go 40 miles?"

 

[Chickenlittle]

Pure BEV Dogma post #1373 summarizes what I implied.

Tesla changes people's perception of an electric car from a golf cart to a rocket.

We want the Volt to change the perception of hybrids to something more positive to get more people off of gas - the end goal. What GM's marketecture has done is eff up the perception of electric cars:

"I thought it can only go 40 miles?"

My daughter has volt (tesla too large for her). It routinely charges to 58 to 60 miles because she drives tamely and weather warm. This opus a gen2 car (those are 2016 and 2017 cars). She does not use L (a heavier regen mode). The miles depend on weather (lower in cools) and your level of aggressiveness when driving. Also depends on speed. She drives very little on highways.

 

[mhan00]

Just leased a Gen 2 Volt with adaptive cruise control to replace my Leaf. I debated myself a ton between getting an S60, an S CPO, or a Volt while waiting for the Model 3. Finally decided to go with the Volt since I got a pretty good lease deal for it. Figured I could save some money to go for a close to fully loaded 3. So far, I love it. Back seat is kind of cramped, storage is less than what I got with the Leaf, but driving is very nice and I'm loving the regen paddle. The tech is also a great upgrade over my barebones Leaf.

 

[mhan00]

After driving the Volt for a few days, I have to say I'm in love with the Adaptive Cruise Control. Really glad I decided to get a car with it. It was a godsend sitting in traffic on the 110 going to and from Union Station in LA. I can see why people rave about their Tesla Autopilot with just a small taste of it with the Volt's ACC. My only complaint so far is that The lane keeping assist is basically worthless. I've played with it while on some empty roads and on the freeway with no or very few cars around, and at best it bounces me from lane line to lane line, or worse, will often let the car actually cross the lane line into the other lane before correcting itself.

The parking assist has worked well the three times I've used it, though I did give myself a scare by not feathering the brake and letting it go full speed in reverse the first time trying it out. The perpendicular parking assist works, but I don't see how useful it is considering it is much quicker with less chance of someone else sniping the spot from behind you to just pull head in to a spot. It's probably more useful in more cramped parking scenarios than the nice, large parking lots we have in the South Bay.

By far the most annoying thing is the lack of fast charging. The charger supports only 3kwh charging, iirc, and not the 6kwh I was used to with my Leaf, never is the 50kwh I could get with the high powered chargers. I didn't think I would care about it so much since I had the gas extender, but I've found it to be pretty frustrating when I've plugged into various EVSEs when I've parked for errands, and come back to find very little range added to the car. Chevy really needs to add in support for faster charging.

 

[diamond.g]

So does anyone with a Volt have a long commute?

 

[Park2670]

My wife drives our Volt 75 miles everyday. There is also a guy on the Volt FB group that has over 300k on his 2012.

 

[diamond.g]

My wife drives our Volt 75 miles everyday. There is also a guy on the Volt FB group that has over 300k on his 2012.

I am trying to figure out if using hold mode on the highway is better than letting it go to CS mode. My time on I95 is like 48 miles of my 57 mile (one way) trip. So far that means I use about 18 miles electric and like 96 miles gas.

 

[Park2670]

EV is better with slower speeds, and the ICE is more efficient at highway speeds. Due to the cold, my wife uses the ICE as soon as she gets on the highway and off when she gets close to work. Still only gets 25 miles of EV range when its 20 degrees out. If you can keep your speed below 63 in CS mode, its possible to get great fuel economy.

With your commute, I would just let it do its thing. Unless one is significantly uphill, then it may be better to save the battery for the other direction.

 

[diamond.g]

EV is better with slower speeds, and the ICE is more efficient at highway speeds. Due to the cold, my wife uses the ICE as soon as she gets on the highway and off when she gets close to work. Still only gets 25 miles of EV range when its 20 degrees out. If you can keep your speed below 63 in CS mode, its possible to get great fuel economy.

With your commute, I would just let it do its thing. Unless one is significantly uphill, then it may be better to save the battery for the other direction.

Thanks, I was explaining what I was doing to my wife yesterday, and she flatly asked me if it can be driven as normal and for her to not have to do all the stuff I was doing. Which is what made me think about it in the first place. I like using no gas in town so I may continue to mess with the modes on my commute.

 

[Park2670]

Thats one of the cool things about the Volt. You can just drive it like a normal car, which my wife does most days. She just gets in, puts it in D and heads to work. She gets home and plugs the charger in so she can have more EV range for errands. Overall we are getting about 900 miles to the tank with her commute.

 

[electracity]

Thats one of the cool things about the Volt. You can just drive it like a normal car, which my wife does most days. She just gets in, puts it in D and heads to work. She gets home and plugs the charger in so she can have more EV range for errands. Overall we are getting about 900 miles to the tank with her commute.

Interesting. She has a good commute for a 200 mile EV. A Leaf would have a short battery life at that range.

 

[McRat]

EV is better with slower speeds, and the ICE is more efficient at highway speeds. ...

This. The ICE fuel economy does not fall as quickly with increased speeds as the EV range drops with increased speeds.

The reason has to do with how a spark Otto cycle engine operates. The tighter the throttle plate restriction, the higher the brake specific fuel consumption is. Diesel engines are exempt from this fault, and it's a major reason why they get better economy.

 

[Jeff N]

So does anyone with a Volt have a long commute?

I have a 2011 Volt and a ~100 mile round trip commute. I just sold it with 143,000 miles on the odometer.

I am trying to figure out if using hold mode on the highway is better than letting it go to CS mode. My time on I95 is like 48 miles of my 57 mile (one way) trip. So far that means I use about 18 miles electric and like 96 miles gas.

My 2011 model doesn't have hold mode (introduced in 2013, I think) but I know what it does. I don't live in a cold winter state but I know what it's like.,..

From the mileage numbers you are mentioning it looks like you also have a first-generation Volt.

If you are only getting 18 miles of EV range then the issue must be severe cold winter temperatures using electric heating perhaps both for the cabin and battery. Also, driving on snow/ice with reduced traction and using less efficient winter tires.

Try using hold mode immediately when you leave home with the climate controls on the fan-only setting. That will prevent any use of the electric cabin heating initially and will use waste heat from the gas engine to bring the cabin up to a comfy temperature initially. Then switch the drive back to normal battery mode and change the climate control to eco mode to maintain the cabin temperature electrically.

Or, if you use 240V to charge the car, consider using the "remote start" feature to pre-warm the car while still plugged in. If you do this, you still need to allow some time after pre-warming for the battery to top-off since the heater uses 5-6 kW to heat a cold car but the 15A grid connection only brings in a little over 3 kW so it needs a few minutes to catch back up. Don't even both trying this if you charge using 120V.

Also, to minimize reduced battery capacity due to cold temperatures, try setting the car to use the delayed charging feature that finishes charging the battery by a certain time. For example, if you leave at 7am for work then tell the car to finish charging by 6:45am. The charging process will leave the battery pre-warmed which avoids the need for the dedicated electric battery heater to be used and also helps the battery release more energy than if it is colder.

Let us know if any of these ideas prove useful.

 

[Jeff N]

The ICE fuel economy does not fall as quickly with increased speeds as the EV range drops with increased speeds.

Another way of looking at it is that ICE efficiency is poor at low power output and less inefficient at higher power output.

The reason has to do with how a spark Otto cycle engine operates. The tighter the throttle plate restriction, the higher the brake specific fuel consumption is. Diesel engines are exempt from this fault, and it's a major reason why they get better economy.

The Volt already plays this game to operate with the throttle plate open under more conditions than a conventional car by placing load on the gas engine with its generator motor.

 

[diamond.g]

I have a 2011 Volt and a ~100 mile round trip commute. I just sold it with 143,000 miles on the odometer.


My 2011 model doesn't have hold mode (introduced in 2013, I think) but I know what it does. I don't live in a cold winter state but I know what it's like.,..

From the mileage numbers you are mentioning it looks like you also have a first-generation Volt.

If you are only getting 18 miles of EV range then the issue must be severe cold winter temperatures using electric heating perhaps both for the cabin and battery. Also, driving on snow/ice with reduced traction and using less efficient winter tires.

Try using hold mode immediately when you leave home with the climate controls on the fan-only setting. That will prevent any use of the electric cabin heating initially and will use waste heat from the gas engine to bring the cabin up to a comfy temperature initially. Then switch the drive back to normal battery mode and change the climate control to eco mode to maintain the cabin temperature electrically.

Or, if you use 240V to charge the car, consider using the "remote start" feature to pre-warm the car while still plugged in. If you do this, you still need to allow some time after pre-warming for the battery to top-off since the heater uses 5-6 kW to heat a cold car but the 15A grid connection only brings in a little over 3 kW so it needs a few minutes to catch back up. Don't even both trying this if you charge using 120V.

Also, to minimize reduced battery capacity due to cold temperatures, try setting the car to use the delayed charging feature that finishes charging the battery by a certain time. For example, if you leave at 7am for work then tell the car to finish charging by 6:45am. The charging process will leave the battery pre-warmed which avoids the need for the dedicated electric battery heater to be used and also helps the battery release more energy than if it is colder.

Let us know if any of these ideas prove useful.

Oh yeah no I am only using 18 EV miles. When I got home yesterday it said I could do another 13-14. Called OnStar to get the basic package (and so I could sign up for VoltStats). By the time that was done I had 12 miles of range remaining. I am using the 120V EVSE for the time being, we are looking to move and I am not sure if I want to get a 240V installed in the current house. NC requires new houses to have 240V charging for EVs so I am covered there. Yeah using the delayed charging trick to make sure the battery is warmer for my 4am trips to work.

So far (two days in) I am enjoying it. Kind of wish there was a way to see the interior temp through the myChevy app (or RemoteLink). Getting ~44 mpg so far which is about the same as my TDI. The torque (glorious, glorious torque) is great too.

 

[Jeff N]

Oh yeah no I am only using 18 EV miles. When I got home yesterday it said I could do another 13-14. Called OnStar to get the basic package (and so I could sign up for VoltStats).

Oh, so this is a new 2nd generation Volt? You are only using the battery for city driving and there is only 18 miles of that so you ended up with 13-14 miles remaining when you got home?

I would try what I suggested earlier by using hold mode when leaving home in the morning to avoid the electric heating and then just go ahead and use the battery while driving on the highway. With the first few minutes running in hold mode on the gas engine followed by using the battery you may run out and switch back to gas while still on the highway. That's fine since it's usually more efficient to warm the engine quickly for best mpg while already driving at highway speeds. It seems that you cannot recharge at work so your drive home will be entirely on the gas engine.

So, my suggestion is sort of the inverse of what you were doing -- I'm effectively suggesting driving on the city stretches on gas and using most of the battery on the highway.

I'm curious how that works vs. what you are doing now. It's hard to know without experimenting. Science!

 

[Jeff N]

FYI, there's no throttle plate in a Volt. It is WOT all the tim

I'm not sure that's literally true but I don't have my service manuals handy to verify that. As far as I know, the Volt still has a normal throttle plate but just runs with it open under more situations.

 

[diamond.g]

Oh, so this is a new 2nd generation Volt? You are only using the battery for city driving and there is only 18 miles of that so you ended up with 13-14 miles remaining when you got home?

I would try what I suggested earlier by using hold mode when leaving home in the morning to avoid the electric heating and then just go ahead and use the battery while driving on the highway. With the first few minutes running in hold mode on the gas engine followed by using the battery you may run out and switch back to gas while still on the highway. That's fine since it's usually more efficient to warm the engine quickly for best mpg while already driving at highway speeds. It seems that you cannot recharge at work so your drive home will be entirely on the gas engine.

So, my suggestion is sort of the inverse of what you were doing -- I'm effectively suggesting driving on the city stretches on gas and using most of the battery on the highway.

I'm curious how that works vs. what you are doing now. It's hard to know without experimenting. Science!

Sorry, no I have a 1st Gen (see sig). It reported 40 miles range this morning before I left. Yesterday I think it reported 38. According to Onstar of ~45K miles it has ~16k were electric. I got it from CarMax and I think they put regular in it as the full tank rating said 180 miles or so. Running it down as much as I can then will fill with premium to see if it gets better. (They also didn't charge the battery when I picked it up, but I figured they wouldn't)