GM Working on a 200 Mile Range EV?

[rolosrevenge]

This is and interesting article, I want to know more. Tesla may get their first serious competition.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-06/akerson-says-gm-working-on-200-mile-range-electric-car.html

 

[qwk]

Wishfull thinking. They are still working on battery technology....

 

[montgom626]

Wishfull thinking. They are still working on battery technology....

Not sure what you mean. As an owner of a 2012 Volt, there is nothing wrong with the battery. The 10 kWh battery that can get 48 miles on just 10 kWh at an ambient temp of 65 degrees.

 

[lolachampcar]

Hmmmmm, 85kWh/10kWh * 48 miles would indicate GM could get 408 miles out of a battery Tesla's size. Either GM is staffed with genius types or someone is driving their Volt very slow and doing no stop and go (or other normal type driving).

 

[mattjs33]

Montgom, why so surprised by Qwk's response? His opinion of GM is only slightly worse than that he holds of the Antichrist...

 

[montgom626]

Hmmmmm, 85kWh/10kWh * 48 miles would indicate GM could get 408 miles out of a battery Tesla's size. Either GM is staffed with genius types or someone is driving their Volt very slow and doing no stop and go (or other normal type driving).

60 mph on a windless day on a flat freeway in Southeastern Wisconsin. Drive like an old man. 5 mph per kWh is the best I have ever done.

GM is staffed with great engineers.

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Montgom, why so surprised by Qwk's response? His opinion of GM is only slightly worse than that he holds of the Antichrist...

I actually own a Volt. Soon to own a P85.

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[qwk]

Not sure what you mean. As an owner of a 2012 Volt, there is nothing wrong with the battery. The 10 kWh battery that can get 48 miles on just 10 kWh at an ambient temp of 65 degrees.

The article quotes that GM "is working on Battery technology to see which one will succeed". Either 100 or 200 mile range batteries.

If GM cannot figure out that 100 and 200 mile battery cars already exist and have for quite some time, time for another Bankruptcy.

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Montgom, why so surprised by Qwk's response? His opinion of GM is only slightly worse than that he holds of the Antichrist...

Some people support incompetence, some don't. We all know which categories you and I fall in...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Not sure what you mean. As an owner of a 2012 Volt, there is nothing wrong with the battery. The 10 kWh battery that can get 48 miles on just 10 kWh at an ambient temp of 65 degrees.

That's like saying Tesla already built a 400 mile battery because it's possible to travel 423.5 miles in a Model S (as demonstrated in a record drive last year).

I would assume GM is claiming EPA numbers. They say they are working on a 100 mile and 200 mile battery pack. They mention the Spark EV slated for next year gets 75 miles.

By the time GM's pack is ready for production, Tesla will likely have passed 300 miles EPA range in a production car and well on the way to 400+.

 

[montgom626]

Montgom, why so surprised by Qwk's response? His opinion of GM is only slightly worse than that he holds of the Antichrist...

I am not 100% sure what QWK was saying. Was QWK being facetious? Sarcastic? Or do I just not understand. I just really enjoy EV and the future they hold.

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That's like saying Tesla already built a 400 mile battery because it's possible to travel 423.5 miles in a Model S (as demonstrated in a record drive last year).

.

GM quotes 35 miles on 10 kWh. That is very easy to do (but not in subzero weather). 48 miles is what I can do in ideal conditions. Most Volt owners will tell you a similar story. I hope that my experience with Volt EV driving can translate into 4 miles per kWh with the much heavier and incredibly more potent MS P85 in the same situation. So, 4 miles / kWh x 85 kWh should be a romping stomping result! I am very excited about owning and driving a pure EV like the P85 that can do 0-60 in 4.4 seconds (some say 4.1). Driving around town, at lower speeds, coasting and using one pedal driving I should be able to do it with ease. And then, while being quiet and smooth, blow the doors off of any car around. Pinch me, I am in a dream!!!! I can eat any Porsche, BMW, or big Detroit iron for lunch. And with no emissions and no noise. Just pure, quiet EV power. Sweeeeet!

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I would assume GM is claiming EPA numbers. They say they are working on a 100 mile and 200 mile battery pack. They mention the Spark EV slated for next year gets 75 miles.

By the time GM's pack is ready for production, Tesla will likely have passed 300 miles EPA range in a production car and well on the way to 400+.

My guess is that GM could do it tomorrow. They have the engineers to do it. They have the experience. Will they? I don't know. With my P85 coming in the next month, I don't really care. GM can let TESLA do what TESLA does best. I can drive my Volt cross country and I can drive my P85 to work for an entire week with just charging on weekends. Does it get any better than this? I have waited 30+ years for this and I am going to enjoy every minute of it. I don't care if GM or TESLA or NISSAN makes my dreams come true. I never thought I would live to see this day arrive.

For me, it is not about who is better, or first, or right or wrong in their EV approach. It is for me about choice. I finally have choices. No more ICE running. I can charge at night, when the grid is underutilized. What a concept. Lessen my need for fossil fuels. Educate those around me about the possibility of a better future.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My guess is that GM could do it tomorrow. They have the engineers to do it. They have the experience. Will they? I don't know.

I think you are underestimating the time it takes for a battery to reach from the lab to a production car. The Volt was unveiled as a concept in Jan 2007, approved for production shortly after, so GM started looking for a battery supplier (started with 25). By June 2007, whittled it down to 2 suppliers. After a whole lot of battery testing (simulating 150k+ miles and 10 years of wear) they picked LG Chem in Jan 2009. There was more testing in mules and the first official production vehicle rolled out in November 30, 2010.

So almost 4 years of work and they were using existing battery cells from other suppliers. If they were to develop a custom chemistry it'll take even longer.

 

[scottf200]

I don't think it is a question of IF they could BUT more at what cost for the number of kWh size they would need. And would customers keep buying it every month every year.

I've driven a 2011 Volt for over 2 years now. It is pretty amazing. Instant on and no EV miles lost overnight. They have great engineering. My 2011 uses 10.3 out of 16 kWh (2013's use 10.8 out of 16.5). I pretty easily get 45 EV miles in the summer but that is at 45 MPH stop and go.

I'm very impressed with what Tesla has done and the updates they provide to the software. I put down a deposit on the Model X.

 

[Iz]

With my P85 coming in the next month, I don't really care. GM can let TESLA do what TESLA does best. I can drive my Volt cross country and I can drive my P85 to work for an entire week with just charging on weekends. Does it get any better than this? I have waited 30+ years for this and I am going to enjoy every minute of it. I don't care if GM or TESLA or NISSAN makes my dreams come true. I never thought I would live to see this day arrive.

For me, it is not about who is better, or first, or right or wrong in their EV approach. It is for me about choice. I finally have choices. No more ICE running. I can charge at night, when the grid is underutilized. What a concept. Lessen my need for fossil fuels. Educate those around me about the possibility of a better future.

A lot of passion there…. I've waited for an EV since reading an article that appeared in the local paper ~ 1996 describing how the local commuter train station was going to setup charging stations for what at the time was the GM Impact -- later renamed EV1. The Gen II version used NiMH batteries and in some instances could go 140 miles. This was in 1999! So it appears GM is not really treading on new water. Instead (IMO), they are using their expertise to take advantage of newer chemistries and other advancements.

 

[dpeilow]

FYI I've had 49.5 miles in the Ampera driving at ambient traffic speed at around 55-60mph.

This is probably the Envia battery that GM invested in and who were claiming near production ready 400 Wh/kg last year. GM are not saying they are trying different chemistries, what I read was that they planned to offer 100 and 200 mile range as options. So maybe we can expect the 100 car to be significantly cheaper than today's EVs in that class.

 

[Zythryn]

The more competition the better.
However, I will believe it when I see it.

 

[mattjs33]

The article quotes that GM "is working on Battery technology to see which one will succeed". Either 100 or 200 mile range batteries.

If GM cannot figure out that 100 and 200 mile battery cars already exist and have for quite some time, time for another Bankruptcy.

Read that as GM is working on battery technology to see which one offers the greatest potential. If you remember they took their battery tech in-house. And I'm sure they are quite aware of Tesla and its Model S. Should they just copy Tesla's battery? Or would that cause IP issues? Would it be possible that maybe there's an even better way?

Some people support incompetence, some don't. We all know which categories you and I fall in...

Yes! I love incompetence! That's why we always disagree! Because I am stupid and you are a genius!

At some point you're going to have to admit that the Volt works, and works well. Whether you agree with its mission or hate its design or its creators, it does exactly what it's supposed to. But only incompetent people work at GM, so maybe they stole the tech from the Chinese?

 

[qwk]

Read that as GM is working on battery technology to see which one offers the greatest potential. If you remember they took their battery tech in-house. And I'm sure they are quite aware of Tesla and its Model S. Should they just copy Tesla's battery? Or would that cause IP issues? Would it be possible that maybe there's an even better way?



Yes! I love incompetence! That's why we always disagree! Because I am stupid and you are a genius!

At some point you're going to have to admit that the Volt works, and works well. Whether you agree with its mission or hate its design or its creators, it does exactly what it's supposed to. But only incompetent people work at GM, so maybe they stole the tech from the Chinese?

Now you are just putting words in my mouth.

The Volt does work, but it's a hybrid(here we go again). We are talking EV's here.

GM made an EV with 130 miles of range 20 years ago, and yet they are having to do research in order to get a 100 mile EV? Let's really call it what it is, a joke. I realize battery prices have quite a bit to do with their lack of interest in pure EV's, but there is no need to make stupid claims like a 100 or 200 mile EV is some big breakthrough when in fact it's very old news. There is a reason why that company went BK....

 

[brianman]

GM made an EV with 130 miles of range 20 years ago, and yet they are having to do research in order to get a 100 mile EV? Let's really call it what it is, a joke.

Hard to argue with this one. I'm sure someone will though.

 

[Johan]

GM made an EV with 130 miles of range 20 years ago, and yet they are having to do research in order to get a 100 mile EV? Let's really call it what it is, a joke.

Well put! However it's no joke but serious stalling, just like Toyta and all the other big carmakers that are stalling with their FUD about BEVs and all their arguments for clinging on to the ICEs in the form of hybrids. This is in turn is related to deep interconnections with the hydrocarbon industries which in many cases are an integral part of upholding the current world power/economic dominance balance.

 

[Iz]

Well put! However it's no joke but serious stalling, just like Toyta and all the other big carmakers that are stalling with their FUD about BEVs and all their arguments for clinging on to the ICEs in the form of hybrids. This is in turn is related to deep interconnections with the hydrocarbon industries which in many cases are an integral part of upholding the current world power/economic dominance balance.

Whatever the reason, companies such as Tesla will benefit and pave the way for when the big boys begin to roll-out their BEVs.

 

[artsci]

Not sure what you mean. As an owner of a 2012 Volt, there is nothing wrong with the battery. The 10 kWh battery that can get 48 miles on just 10 kWh at an ambient temp of 65 degrees.

48 miles? I'm lucky to get 38 on my Volt on the best day.