Go with Tesla or Swell Energy for 2 Powerwalls?

[scrumpto]

I have a quote from Swell Energy for 2 Powerwalls but haven't contacted Tesla yet.

Here's the quote

Total amount: $23,320.80
Federal tax credit: $6,063.41
Other Rebates amount: $5,279.95
Net cost: $11,977.44​

My System
I have a 46 panel system with Enphase IQ7+ Micro Inverters generating 15.69 kW.
I have a Tesla Model S
Location: Near Sacramento CA
Power Provider: PG&E

Questions

• Is it worth the $99 fee to contact Tesla or is this a good price? It seems high to me.
• What's the going price in 2020 for a 2 Powerwall install?
• Install is going to take 60-90 days. Was kinda hoping for sooner. Is Tesla quicker or slower?
• I'm curious about the Enphase Encharge batteries but don't know when they're going to be available and whether they'll be better or worse. I'm sure that's debatable -- just looking for someone with relevant experience.

Anything you all can tell me would be awesome as PG&E already killed our power for four days once so I'd like to make sure that doesn't happen again!

Thanks!

 

[jjrandorin]

Ignore the federal tax credit in your quote, because that is the same for every vendor you would buy it from.

For the "other rebates" that likely references the SGIP rebate, and I would tell them to put, in WRITING, that you will receive this rebate. Its likely wait listed, so it would be interesting to see them promise it to you.

What you are really looking at is a quote for 2 powerwalls for 23,320.80, vs the price from Tesla which would be 18,300 ish, so about 5k more to go with the third party than tesla. IF they can somehow promise you the sgip rebate, then that amount takes their quote down to right around the price of what tesla itself charges for 2 powerwalls (without getting the SGIP) which is consistent with what I found when I was getting quotes.

Any vendor who was eligible for the SGIP was pricing the system such that they were the effective party getting it. Like I said, you will get a federal tax credit of 26% regardless from either place, provided you have the tax liability for it, so dont figure it in the quote.

Tesla would be 18,250-18,300 ish without the SGIP ("other rebates" in that quote) and then 26% off your taxes for that amount.

Issue is, tesla likely will not get it done before the fall, because they have more business they can handle right now. The third party you are quoting might be able to get it done faster (although I would verify they have the product IN STOCK right now, and are not waiting for tesla to ship them some... .because then you will likely wait the same length of time).

TL ; DR

Tesla is cheaper but you will not get SGIP rebate, which is shown in your quote as "other rebates".

SGIP california rebate is over subscribed and wait listed, so I dont believe anyone can "promise" a SGIP rebate to someone just now getting started.

Federal tax credit should not count in the quote. Compare out the door price, since YOU are the one who qualifies for the tax credit or not, they dont take it off the order.

You are looking at 23.3k for your third party vendor Vs 18.3k for tesla, but tesla is going to take much longer, IF they promise SGIP in writing to you, your effective price would be similar between the two quotes for tesla and non tesla.

 

[miimura]

I went with Swell Energy and put a deposit in April 2017. They told me that I could get the deposit back if they were not able to guarantee the SGIP rebate. They did follow through and got me in SGIP Step 1. However, they were not able to get the Powerwalls for another 6 months. Obviously, the situation is different today, but if they say they can get the SGIP rebate, I would believe them. The company was basically set up to take advantage of that rebate program. Their whole job is customer service and pushing papers since they subcontract the actual installations.

The other thing I would caution people about is that the Tax Credit is only based on your net cost after rebates. Swell erroneously and repeatedly showed figures that based the tax credit on the total cost paid to them.

 

[SMAlset]

I wasn't familar with where Lincoln was and see it's up near Sacramento. I'm down in south SF bay area and can just give you some feedback from my area. We have an order for solar and 2 PW from Tesla, from beginning of January when they were bundling it. I don't believe there is a bundling discount ($2600) available on new orders now. They were also giving out a $1K credit if you were in the PG&E wildfire safety shut down area.

Originally we were scheduled for March install and then were contacted that they would be spitting the order into two parts, solar one install (to happen in March) and PW the other part to be done in the fall (no date given).

Right now in California I think solar related companies have their hands full of jobs scheduled to be done before fire season starts again. I guess I'm not surprised this other company told you that the PW install would be several months out. As for the pricing you can go to Tesla's Energy site and get current pricing based on the total cost of the PW I think. Your exact installation would be somewhat different from ours due to different hookup to equipment and layout but I tend to think Tesla averages out costs across the board. Back at the beginning of the year our PW portion for 2 including tax was $14,269, the gateway $1,100, installation, permitting and fees $2,500 (total $17,869 before the $3,600 credits Tesla was giving mentioned above). Tesla has used all of it's SGIP applications already (and we were a 1/4 order date). Availability of that credit will depend on what the other installation companies have left at this point (allotments were spread out among companies).

 

[n1tr0sp33d]

In Sac area myself, just had 2 installed in Jan for $18ish via Tesla. reason for slowness is PGE, engineering, govt approvals/inspections and install calendar filling up. 3 months is pretty fast.

 

[charlesj]

Yep, I would take that Swell quote if an only if that "other rebate" was guaranteed.
If they can, you'd be ahead by $1300.

 

[jjrandorin]

Yep, I would take that Swell quote if an only if that "other rebate" was guaranteed.
If they can, you'd be ahead by $1300.

How so? 23,320 - 5280 (other rebate) = 18040 (ignoring federal tax credit as its relevant to the installer). My install through tesla for 2 powerwalls (not counting any federal tax rebate) was 18,333.XX. My final invoice was 18,234.XX because I already had the 99 deposit.

Just wondering how you are getting ahead 1300, maybe I am not understanding the math. Miimura also shares the tax credit is after rebates but not calculating that, just going off the "other rebates" quoted.

 

[charlesj]

How so? 23,320 - 5280 (other rebate) = 18040 (ignoring federal tax credit as its relevant to the installer). My install through tesla for 2 powerwalls (not counting any federal tax rebate) was 18,333.XX. My final invoice was 18,234.XX because I already had the 99 deposit.

Just wondering how you are getting ahead 1300, maybe I am not understanding the math. Miimura also shares the tax credit is after rebates but not calculating that, just going off the "other rebates" quoted.

Well, his bottom line is $11,977 with all credits. Tesla at $18,300 minus 26% tax is $13542. No other credits that Tesla is applying for.
Ooops, made a mistake, his $1565 better.

 

[jjrandorin]

Well, his bottom line is $11,977 with all credits. Tesla at $18,300 minus 26% tax is $13542. No other credits that Tesla is applying for.
Ooops, made a mistake, his $1565 better.

See Miimura's post about that company specifically over estimating tax credit. 26% is the same for both, so should be discounted from the two quotes. They are quoting the Federal tax credit based on their full price, not the price minus the SGIP they are saying this OP is going to get. They are saying 26% tax credit on their full quoted amount.

Shrug.... it would be interesting to see how this actually comes out, but I feel fairly comfortable that this OPs actual price difference is <300, not 1300 or 1500, but its not my money, and I would not trust this vendor to guarantee the SGIP. Maybe they can... but I wouldnt put my faith in it myself.

 

[charlesj]

... and I would not trust this vendor to guarantee the SGIP. Maybe they can... but I wouldnt put my faith in it myself.

That is a different issue, trust.
I can only calculate with what was given.
Not counting the tax credit is a mistake due to the two different total costs.
No idea of the outcome in the end unless that other credit is spelled out in the contract and can be taken to small claims court if needed.

 

[DrSmile]

Just a side comment about your energy needs and the number of PWs you're installing. If you need 15KW of panels my guess is the 27KWh the 2 PWs will provide won't get you very far, both in terms of load-shifting and in terms of backup power. On a hot day my 2 Powerwalls will barely run my house for 3 hours because of the central air.

 

[charlesj]

Just a side comment about your energy needs and the number of PWs you're installing. If you need 15KW of panels my guess is the 27KWh the 2 PWs will provide won't get you very far, both in terms of load-shifting and in terms of backup power. On a hot day my 2 Powerwalls will barely run my house for 3 hours because of the central air.

Yes. But it is a probability game unless one want close to 100% not to be.
Maybe on such a day grid down, not enough sun perhaps, loads need to be dropped.
Or for full off grid operation at full house load operating for several days, perhaps one may need more than 3 nor 4 PW.

I guess each has to figure out what is needed under such grid down conditions.

 

[jjrandorin]

That is a different issue, trust.
I can only calculate with what was given.
Not counting the tax credit is a mistake due to the two different total costs.
No idea of the outcome in the end unless that other credit is spelled out in the contract and can be taken to small claims court if needed.

The tax credit only applies on the amount after rebates, so the tax credit is not on the 23k figure but on the 18k figure just like teslas figure. Thats what I am saying. You dont get to take 26% off 23k and then still get the SGIP, even if the vendor is quoting it that way. Since the vendor has zero, zip, nada to do with the tax credit, it makes no sense to include it in their quote. They do so to make a sales case for it (like any other vendor quoting mail in rebates etc to make something appear to be cheaper for someone to buy it).

Federal tax credit is not part of that quote because the vendor doesnt provide it, and is not liable for making sure that value is correct.

 

[charlesj]

Thanks. I didn't realize the rebate is subtracted before the ITC calculated.