Gonna bail - anyone else?

[MrBoylan]

I totally get what you're saying. When I purchased my Roadster, it was for performance. I didn't buy into the environmental argument. Because there were a lot better ways I thought I could spend that money to help the environment than buy a performance car. Right?

Someone on the forum pointed out to me the influence I'd had at the large number of events I'd attended, showing that performance electric sports car. Thousands of people had seen it. I know there have been a LOT of sales of electric cars because of it. (Even some people here on the forum.) I've certainly held countless conversations about what we each, individually, can do to help reduce our carbon footprint because I own that fun car.

So yes, it is a ridiculous amount of money. Each one of us has our own reasons for buying what we buy. I tell my children that I'm spending their inheritance and, they'e told me 'well, you've earned it'. (Love them!) But don't ever think that your purchase of one of these cars or a more inexpensive version doesn't have a wider impact than just driving it, because it does. People see it on the road. They ask you questions at the supermarket. It becomes 'normal'. And they think about how it would fit into their life.

Individual decision. But a global impact.

I love this post.

 

[MrBoylan]

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!

It isn't easy to explain what drew me to Tesla, but I will say that I think some people (myself included) have an emotional response to a Tesla Model S and/or X that defies logic and turns otherwise sane and rational people into giddy and effusive emissaries of the brand and its products. I won't use the term "fan boys" (or "fan girls") due to a somewhat negative connotation, but it's not far off from that. I haven't lost all objectivity, but I do give the company more leeway (non-folding seats on the X, for example) in pursuit of the "greater good."

I started hearing about and researching Tesla in late 2012/early 2013, liked what I was seeing and bought some shares in the company in March, 2013. Over time, I bought more shares, test drove a P85+ (loved it!), heard about the X and reserved one in mid 2013, sold some shares and bought a few more. Since then, I've been an avid follower of the company and its products.

What appeals to me about Tesla is, well... everything. The car is 100% electric, which appeals to my eco-conscious side. Our current car is a 10-year-old Highlander Hybrid which was the first car we bought new, for similar environmental and practical reasons. A Tesla is quicker than any car has a right to be, fits 5-7 people plus gear comfortably and handles like a sports car. It is probably the most technologically advanced car ever created. The 17-inch touch screen controls virtually every element of the driving and passenger experience. It adjusts its attitude/height for ideal aerodynamics. It even gets regular over-the-air updates that keep making the car more and more awesome. And those falcon wing doors? Yowza!

Then there's Elon Musk. He can be a bit abrasive, probably gives most of his employees conniptions, is about as arrogant as they come *BUT* he's a visionary who wills impossible things into existence, and doesn't settle for "good enough." Everything he's doing, from solar power to electric cars to reusable rockets, to missions to Mars appeals to my SciFi-loving, environment-respecting, adventure-seeking, technology-exploiting, underdog-rooting, establishment-challenging nature. I dig what he's doing, and I support his and Tesla's missions. And like ohmman and others have said, I'm voting with my dollars.

A $100K+ car is a bit of a stretch, but it's not impacting my retirement nest egg or wiping out our cash cushion, or dooming my kids to less-than-ideal education choices. Sure, having an ultra-expensive electric-powered car is impractical on the one hand, but eminently practical on the other. And it's sustainable. Which I like. Our roof isn't large enough for a solar power system that can provide 100% of our power needs (thanks to NYC fire codes) but the system we do have up there offsets a lot of our electricity usage, and the rest of our power we buy from renewable sources so I feel pretty good about my soon-to-be-delivered wind, water and sun-powered car.

And if my friends think I won't shut up about Tesla now, just wait until they see me in a few months when I finally take delivery of my Model X! But then I'll take them for a ride... and maybe they'll finally understand?

 

[russman]

When I was looking for a car, I felt I was going to stretch for a car in the $40k-$50k. I wanted a Tesla, but it was just too expensive in principle. After looking for cars in that range, I couldn't find anything I liked that gave me the performance. I wanted a hybrid, just to feel like I was doing something for the environment. I installed solar with the thought of getting the Tesla, but after 3 orders and cancels, I couldn't do it. Finally, looked at all the options and basically said, if I stretched to a 60-70k car, then in the longrun a Tesla might be fine along with the benefits. So I finally went through with my order. Looking back, I love the car. It's still expensive, but I wouldn't want anything else. So I'm really hoping the III is spectacular and ends up in the $40k-$50k range for the next car, because I'm fairly certain I can't be like Bonnie and own the 3 best Tesla's around, even if I could financially, it would just be too much money to put into 2 cars....

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!

 

[S'toon]

When I was looking for a car, I felt I was going to stretch for a car in the $40k-$50k. I wanted a Tesla, but it was just too expensive in principle. After looking for cars in that range, I couldn't find anything I liked that gave me the performance. I wanted a hybrid, just to feel like I was doing something for the environment. I installed solar with the thought of getting the Tesla, but after 3 orders and cancels, I couldn't do it. Finally, looked at all the options and basically said, if I stretched to a 60-70k car, then in the longrun a Tesla might be fine along with the benefits. So I finally went through with my order. Looking back, I love the car. It's still expensive, but I wouldn't want anything else. So I'm really hoping the III is spectacular and ends up in the $40k-$50k range for the next car, because I'm fairly certain I can't be like Bonnie and own the 3 best Tesla's around, even if I could financially, it would just be too much money to put into 2 cars....

Actually, right now Bonnie only has the Roadster. She never got a Model S (that I know of), she sold her Sig X Number 2 and is waiting for her new Founder's X.

 

[ecarfan]

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

All new cars, in every price segment, depreciate radically in the first few years. Tesla's depreciate the same as similar luxury cars. This has been extensively discussed on TMC many times, and the data supports it.
It was only recently that Tesla started selling CPO cars and they are a great way to get one and save significant money, if that helps you.
I do not consider myself "wealthy" but it all depends on what one measures oneself against. I do feel fortunate. My 2013 new Model S cost double what I had ever paid for a car. It was worth it. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you.
And as others have pointed out, buying a new EV and selling your old car doesn't mean your old car is junked, someone else will get use out of it for many years and your new EV is far cleaner than your old car. Remember, all cars get junked eventually.
Even Teslas won't last forever, but my bet is they will last far, far longer than the average ICE and create far less pollution during that time. So that benefits everyone's families. Think about it...and don't buy a vehicle that burns dead plants and heats up the atmosphere we all depend on. That benefits no one!

 

[Zybane]

If your present insurer wants to gouge you, and you let them, it's your fault. Every insurance company tries to jack up rates if they think they can get away with it.

SHOP AROUND. There is nothing magical in a name. My insurer is one I never heard of, yet they pay of better than others I have had, and charge less. Often, even hinting you will go looking, your insurer will drop prices.

The biggest insurance cost is insuring lives. Tesla is the safest car in the world. My rates are just a little bit more than what they were when I drove a 2009 Prius.

Pretty silly to assume someone wouldn't shop around for insurance. And no, the largest insurance cost isn't insuring lives as part of automobile insurance. The amount of lives/claims is very small compared to the amount of damage and total loss claims for vehicles. Guess what percentage of US car crashes are fatal? 0.0055 percent.

The Tesla is an expensive vehicle that is expensive to repair and is easily totaled. I wouldn't believe a $100K+ Tesla would be insured for "just a little bit more" than a $30K Prius unless proven. Makes absolutely zero financial sense for the insurance company. Unless your Prius rate is somehow ridiculous to begin with.

My $104K Tesla on Order will cost MORE to insure than my brand new Dodge Viper. A largely carbon fiber, high HP RWD sports car. That is the case with USAA, Geico and Progressive. And that is with a perfect driving record.

 

[Marcos]

I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

We live in a time of massive income inequality, so sure, too many people live paycheck to paycheck. The vast majority, unfortunately.

But by definition, there are 3.19 million Americans living in the top 1%, which are those with assets of around $9 million or annual household income over $400,000. Tesla has sold how many, 50,000 total cars in the US? The total addressable market is MUCH higher, even at that lofty financial pinnacle. Those in the top 5 percent are making $210,000 per year. Are they part of Tesla's potential market? I'd guess so, and that puts the potential market at nearly 17 million. Then, of course, there's the overseas markets..

Now not all wealth will be drawn to Teslas. They are big in tech-centric Silicon Valley and socially conscious Hollywood. Heck, the Twitter IPO minted 1,600 new millionaires. Facebook's another thousand. Lots of money flowing around SF, SJ, and East Bay more than happy to choose Teslas over Lambos or other traditional high-cost cars. I'm in that boat. I'd never consider a Bentley or Maserati or anything like that. Not even a Beemer or Benz. My current car is a cheap Mazda, and if Tesla wasn't around, I'd likely splurge and get a Subaru WRX, a $30,000 car. But I'm a technologist, a gadget freak, and an environmentalist, so talk about a win-win!

Compare that, say, to Texas energy wealth. I'm sure those guys have zero interest in a car that makes their product obsolete. God knows they don't care about trees or clean air! New York Wall Street wealth has a deep tradition of expensive German luxury brands. And they still wear suits. So tradition is quite important in that world.

All gross generalizations of course, and exceptions abound. But point is that while not all wealthy people are potential Tesla customers, there's still a hell of a lot of them who could be who still don't own Teslas or even know the company exists. We're all still on the bleeding edge, here.

In any case, I don't give a rat's ass about depreciation. I'm keeping my future X as long as it'll keep running. If I wanted an investment, I'd buy some stocks, not a car. The car is a thing that gets me and my family from Point A to Point B, except that in a few months, I'll be doing so without contributing a single pound of CO2 into the atmosphere (100% solar powered).

And if I give Tesla a little boost in its efforts to bring the Model 3 to the masses, well then, so much the better!

 

[Hugh Mannity]

It isn't easy to explain what drew me to Tesla, but I will say that I think some people (myself included) have an emotional response to a Tesla Model S and/or X that defies logic and turns otherwise sane and rational people into giddy and effusive emissaries of the brand and its products. I won't use the term "fan boys" (or "fan girls") due to a somewhat negative connotation, but it's not far off from that. I haven't lost all objectivity, but I do give the company more leeway (non-folding seats on the X, for example) in pursuit of the "greater good."

Pretty much word for word what I think too. Before I got obsessed with Tesla I would not have considered spending 50 let alone 100 grand on a vehicle. It's more than the sum of it's parts. "Non Tesla" people don't get it.

This purchase will certainly affect the pay cheque for awhile but it won't put me in the poorhouse!

 

[MichealW]

I totally get what you're saying. When I purchased my Roadster, it was for performance. I didn't buy into the environmental argument. Because there were a lot better ways I thought I could spend that money to help the environment than buy a performance car. Right?

Someone on the forum pointed out to me the influence I'd had at the large number of events I'd attended, showing that performance electric sports car. Thousands of people had seen it. I know there have been a LOT of sales of electric cars because of it. (Even some people here on the forum.) I've certainly held countless conversations about what we each, individually, can do to help reduce our carbon footprint because I own that fun car.

So yes, it is a ridiculous amount of money. Each one of us has our own reasons for buying what we buy. I tell my children that I'm spending their inheritance and, they'e told me 'well, you've earned it'. (Love them!) But don't ever think that your purchase of one of these cars or a more inexpensive version doesn't have a wider impact than just driving it, because it does. People see it on the road. They ask you questions at the supermarket. It becomes 'normal'. And they think about how it would fit into their life.

Individual decision. But a global impact.

Love the initial post and the response from Bonnie!

 

[pvogel]

We live in a time of massive income inequality, so sure, too many people live paycheck to paycheck. The vast majority, unfortunately.

But by definition, there are 3.19 million Americans living in the top 1%, which are those with assets of around $9 million or annual household income over $400,000. Tesla has sold how many, 50,000 total cars in the US? The total addressable market is MUCH higher, even at that lofty financial pinnacle. Those in the top 5 percent are making $210,000 per year. Are they part of Tesla's potential market? I'd guess so, and that puts the potential market at nearly 17 million. Then, of course, there's the overseas markets..

Now not all wealth will be drawn to Teslas. They are big in tech-centric Silicon Valley and socially conscious Hollywood. Heck, the Twitter IPO minted 1,600 new millionaires. Facebook's another thousand. Lots of money flowing around SF, SJ, and East Bay more than happy to choose Teslas over Lambos or other traditional high-cost cars. I'm in that boat. I'd never consider a Bentley or Maserati or anything like that. Not even a Beemer or Benz. My current car is a cheap Mazda, and if Tesla wasn't around, I'd likely splurge and get a Subaru WRX, a $30,000 car. But I'm a technologist, a gadget freak, and an environmentalist, so talk about a win-win!

Compare that, say, to Texas energy wealth. I'm sure those guys have zero interest in a car that makes their product obsolete. God knows they don't care about trees or clean air! New York Wall Street wealth has a deep tradition of expensive German luxury brands. And they still wear suits. So tradition is quite important in that world.

All gross generalizations of course, and exceptions abound. But point is that while not all wealthy people are potential Tesla customers, there's still a hell of a lot of them who could be who still don't own Teslas or even know the company exists. We're all still on the bleeding edge, here.

In any case, I don't give a rat's ass about depreciation. I'm keeping my future X as long as it'll keep running. If I wanted an investment, I'd buy some stocks, not a car. The car is a thing that gets me and my family from Point A to Point B, except that in a few months, I'll be doing so without contributing a single pound of CO2 into the atmosphere (100% solar powered).

And if I give Tesla a little boost in its efforts to bring the Model 3 to the masses, well then, so much the better!

That's exactly my point of view! This is a stretch for me (paying cash) but it's an opportunity to make a difference and I expect this to be nearly my last car (though I may upgrade the battery in some number of year cycle)

Peter+

 

[vjlvjl]

Regarding money - it's just a decision everybody has to make individually. You have a certain income, you have a certain budget. Some people like to spend the majority of their paycheck on a fancy car because they enjoy driving. Some people have a lot of money to spend. There is a wide variety of reasons why people are getting one, just loving nice cars could be one.

As for the environmental benefit - well yes, there is a huge benefit. We had a Highlander for the past 10 years, and in that time, we've pumped 3963 gallons of gasoline into it (slightly more, there were 7 instances when we forgot to log pumping gas). The Model X will be powered almost entirely by our solar panels. We'll easily offset the cost of producing the car. Not to mention that there will be no emissions as we drive, so we do our part to keep the air in our residential area cleaner and keep the noise level down.

How do people afford to buy a Tesla? It’s a question I often pondered. I have gone through so many financial models to justify buying a Tesla but could not come up with a single sound justification to spend 100K+ on a car … until I realized it’s not a financial decision (for me)…it’s a lifestyle decision. And lifestyle decisions are often in conflict with sound financial decisions. Once I realized this, I reserved a Model X the same day.

I am one of those people who were suckered into buying a timeshare. But even after 24 years of owning one, I still don’t regret getting suckered into it (except of course initially). We have so many beautiful memories of spending time with the kids in different parts of the country. And the kids now being adults are making their own memories. We parents don’t even get to use the timeshare anymore. And that is priceless to me. This is what changed my thinking from considering Tesla as a financial decision to a lifestyle decision.

 

[tinm]

How do people afford to buy a Tesla? It’s a question I often pondered. I have gone through so many financial models to justify buying a Tesla but could not come up with a single sound justification to spend 100K+ on a car … until I realized it’s not a financial decision (for me)…it’s a lifestyle decision. And lifestyle decisions are often in conflict with sound financial decisions. Once I realized this, I reserved a Model X the same day.

I am one of those people who were suckered into buying a timeshare. But even after 24 years of owning one, I still don’t regret getting suckered into it (except of course initially). We have so many beautiful memories of spending time with the kids in different parts of the country. And the kids now being adults are making their own memories. We parents don’t even get to use the timeshare anymore. And that is priceless to me. This is what changed my thinking from considering Tesla as a financial decision to a lifestyle decision.

Friends of mine who shake their heads at my Tesla purchase believe it's a "lifestyle" decision, but I didn't look at it that way.

I recognize that there's no economic basis whereby the car saves me money, what with the major up-front cost and the costs of HWPC+installation, service, huge insurance fees, etc.

I justified the purchase because I believe in the mission of the company, and want to support that mission. I believe in hastening the adoption of more sustainable forms of transportation and energy use. I bought into the argument that the early phases of Tesla's mission require successfully selling high-end cars to help "pave the way" for a more affordable car, the Model 3, and subsequent models (which I hope include a Ford F150 competitor).

Now, the economic argument for me was justified by buying lots of TSLA stock in 2012-13. Some of it I used to pay for the car in 2013, but the majority I'm holding for at least 5 or more years.

 

[Lloyd]

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!

Its really not as expensive as you think when you factor the cost of the gasoline that you would have been putting into your Gasoline engine (ICE). I tell a story of my old pickup truck I'm still driving. I paid $19,000 for it new. Since then I have put 225K miles on it. That equates to about 14,500 gallons of fuel. At an average price of $3.25 per gallon, thats over $45,000 in fuel!

 

[rick]

One thing frequently not mentioned in the threads justifying our financially questionable decisions is this: IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!! I have a 2013 S85 -- 28,000+ miles--yes-it's had problems-service has been remarkable-& ranger was expensive. I love driving the car. My wife's X has been configured. Doubt that I'll ever buy another ICE (selling my 2002 Tahoe with 160,000 miles-a great car). I think it's dangerous for people to test drive a Tesla--we have enough problems with drugs in this country. Peace rf

p.s. another demographic--old folks who probably are going to buy one more car in their life, want to have fun, buy American, and don't want to leave everything to the kids.

 

[FarmerDave]

One thing frequently not mentioned in the threads justifying our financially questionable decisions is this: IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!! I have a 2013 S85 -- 28,000+ miles--yes-it's had problems-service has been remarkable-& ranger was expensive. I love driving the car. My wife's X has been configured. Doubt that I'll ever buy another ICE (selling my 2002 Tahoe with 160,000 miles-a great car). I think it's dangerous for people to test drive a Tesla--we have enough problems with drugs in this country. Peace rf

p.s. another demographic--old folks who probably are going to buy one more car in their life, want to have fun, buy American, and don't want to leave everything to the kids.

I'm in that same demographic, rick. But the things that really swayed me to buy the most expensive car in my life were the safety for my grandkids and the (anticipated) ease of putting my granddaughter into her car seat. So after test driving a Model S, we signed up for the Sig X sight unseen.

 

[aesculus]

I went all in although I was really hoping for second row folding seats. If I am lucky they will provide them right before my production so I can switch. If not then the day after and no retrofit.:cursing:

 

[EboMike]

I went all in although I was really hoping for second row folding seats. If I am lucky they will provide them right before my production so I can switch. If not then the day after and no retrofit.:cursing:

I'm fairly certain that the Model X will *never* have second row folding seats. It would be way too big of a design change now.

Hell, the Model S never got rear cup holders despite loud protests.

 

[AlMc]

I went all in although I was really hoping for second row folding seats. If I am lucky they will provide them right before my production so I can switch. If not then the day after and no retrofit.:cursing:

I'm fairly certain that the Model X will *never* have second row folding seats. It would be way too big of a design change now.

Hell, the Model S never got rear cup holders despite loud protests.

my belief is that we do see a folding seat option with the X. I may be wrong but I am willing to delay configuration for about six months to see. I accept that my needs in a CUV/SUV are not the same as others but current configurations can not replace the U in my current ICE SUV.

congratulation aesculus! I will be interested to read your reports once you have yours!

 

[Mark Z]

My belief is that we do see a folding seat option with the X. I may be wrong but I am willing to delay configuration for about six months to see...

Not a bad idea to wait awhile. If Model S had the same comfortable seat as the Model X and the larger windshield, it wouldn't be a question to enjoy Model S.

I do like sitting higher in traffic, but comparing the two will continue to help decide what to enjoy. Both designs have their advantages.

What would I change in Model X at this point:

- Interior overhead lighting: Five leds and two leds are grouped together with a single opaque cover. Reminds me of a 50's dome light with no direct light to read. Perhaps a clear cover would help. (This alone makes using X during the day and S at night an attractive idea! More daily range too!)

- Rear interior surfaces: All surfaces should allow scuffing without visible marking.

- Headlights: Feature the smooth light of Model S headlights, the Model X headlight reflector patterns on the road is distracting.

 

[lolachampcar]

I joined the bailed club.