Good deal on used P85D?

[whitex]

When looking at used pricing I think too many are overlooking a 370mile range Raven starts at $80k and that is active suspension AP and still a darn quick car with 3.7 0-60.
Many are still pricing based on what their car cost new ignoring the big swing up in standard equipment and range and big swing down in price.

People tend to value the property they own irrationally and most are completely unfamiliar with (or refusing to acknowledge) the concept of "sunk cost". Someone who paid $150K for P90DL is often not considering that P100DL now starts under $100K. Sometimes they find a buyer who didn't do their homework, but most often they end up not selling their stuff, while getting offended by receiving much lower offers, while their car is devaluing further as it gets older. Then there are people who include all taxes and registration (but conveniently leave out tax rebate) as the "new car price" and price the used car from there, but those are just greedy people. I've seen cars, including Teslas, listed at prices above what they costed after the rebates, but with 10-20K miles on them. On occasion they do find a buyer by the way (rarely, but it happens).

Rational people know that a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It is possible to put more work into selling a car, therefore increasing a chance of finding a buyer paying more money, therefore effectively raising the value of said car - but that is not how people think, most people think property has some absolute value for all property somehow, hence all the whining every time prices change and people are all outraged how they paid some amount more just months earlier. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is really evident in stock trading by the way, people holding onto a stock because they bought it for more money and are not willing to take a loss, however when asked whether they are planning to buy more of the same stock they say "of course not, it's down". Why not? If they think the stock will go up, they should buy more, if they think the stock will go down they shouldn't be holding onto the stock they have (yes, there may be some possible tax implications, but in this argument those people are not at all considering those).

Plenty more examples out there of people making decisions with their emotions and feelings instead of rational thought, but I guess that is human nature.

 

[Zishan]

sorka, I take it you don't like the +plus suspension? Or unfortunately they stopped in March and no longer offer it?

I hear a lot of people praise it, but some considered it too firm. I have never ridden/driven one, so no experience here.


Personally, I have the SAS and had a coil suspension loaner for a few. I really liked it sometimes, but other times I didn't With the SAS, I really like it sometimes, and sometimes I don't. Looking forward to trying out the Raven suspension...

All March cars still had it. My P85D was March 31st and has the plus suspension...unfortunately.

 

[sorka]

sorka, I take it you don't like the +plus suspension? Or unfortunately they stopped in March and no longer offer it?

I hear a lot of people praise it, but some considered it too firm. I have never ridden/driven one, so no experience here.


Personally, I have the SAS and had a coil suspension loaner for a few. I really liked it sometimes, but other times I didn't With the SAS, I really like it sometimes, and sometimes I don't. Looking forward to trying out the Raven suspension...

It's way too firm. I've had two P85+ loaners with the plus suspension and those were PERFECT for aggressive street driving. The P85D+ is not the same suspension. The anti roll bars are 2 mm thicker than the P85+ and the compression/rebound/spring rates are all higher than the P85+.

I also had a regular P85 loaner and the suspension was way too soft just like a pre-raven non plus dual motor S.

The P85+ is like the Goldilocks of Tesla suspension.

This is coming from a guy who found the Z51 on the Corvette perfect for street driving.

Recently, I've found that lowering my 19" tire pressure down to 42 makes it far more tolerable. I won't try it on my 21" wheels because the sidewalls are too short and I don't want to risk bending a wheel.

My feeling now is that it's the performance suspension in combination with much higher than typical tire pressures for a car with that kind of suspension has been the source of the discomfort.

Interestingly, in the 3K miles I've been running that way, I've not seen any dip in wh / mile efficiency. Still averaging 303 wh / mile on my P85D .... ludicrous launches and all.

 

[Zishan]

I hear ya, I used to daily drive an NSX (firm coilovers/upsized wheels) as well as a C6Z06 (also lowered/upsized wheels). So I'm a bit sensitive/attentive to suspension feel. As I'm aging, I'm swaying away from the firmer settings, but don't want to feel like I'm driving a boat either.

I'm on 21's, so a good point about the tire pressure. In the past, I always over in-flatted slightly to protect the wheels, so to your point, I'm going to do that with my Model S as well. Might help with the soft suspension...

Thanks,
- Zishan

This is coming from a guy who found the Z51 on the Corvette perfect for street driving.

Recently, I've found that lowering my 19" tire pressure down to 42 makes it far more tolerable. I won't try it on my 21" wheels because the sidewalls are too short and I don't want to risk bending a wheel.

My feeling now is that it's the performance suspension in combination with much higher than typical tire pressures for a car with that kind of suspension has been the source of the discomfort.

 

[Benjanos]

2015 P85D CPO bought 1 year ago. Titanium. Color is a personal choice, I like mine. The 4 year warranty at the time (and free supercharging) was an influence and nice to have. I've dearly wanted 'L' but now, ah come on.... makes the kids giggle and Dad almost puke as it is.

Zero problems to date. Nothing. Best car I ever had.

 

[cucubits]

I'm torn by what seems like an impossible choice:

- 2015 85D 25k miles
- 2016 facelift 75D 45k miles

About the same price. I love the facelift but I'd love as few miles as possible and as new car as possible. On the other hand I hear good things about 85 batteries.

 

[Stan Moraski]

Well both original P85D’s went away right before taking the plunge, but one resurfaced this morning. Titanium metallic, carbon fiber trim, 35K miles and only $50,200! Took the leap, now with only $100 deposit. When did $2500 deposit go away?

 

[Whitelighting]

Four year warranty is a must, free supercharging not so much. Don’t need subzero as I would not drive my Tesla in the snow. (It rarely sees rain). That’s why my BROWN 2013 P85 looks like new, and it’s fast enough, I just like the ‘planted’ feeling of the P85D.

Thanks for the continued great feedback. The one I’m looking at is down to $50,500! If it goes sub $50K I may just have to pull the trigger.

In the P85D ludicrous never made much if any difference at all. That's why it was a $5k dollar upgrade instead of $10k. The amps that needed to be raised to make ludicrous effective is not effective in the P85D. Tesla was sued over this in Norway and had to refund the price they charged to add ludicrous. If you download the draggy app you will see that all the P85D/P85DL do around the same time 0-60mph. You don't have to own a dragy to view the 0-60mph results. It's a waste of money for the P85D to maybe gain a tenth of a second. Maybe... What I would look for would be the + suspension. But as noted earlier it may fall in the dates that have them but many had the suspension replaced and the + suspension parts are/were no longer available so they switched them to the newer suspension. The new Plaid P100D+ is bringing back the adaptive + suspension.

 

[cucubits]

I did notice too that they've switched to $100 order fee today. Doesn't make much sense, I don't understand why they would do that. I was actually looking fw to having a bigger chunk of the car paid from a credit card in advance...

 

[BigNick]

I would guess that $100 is now 100% non-refundable if you refuse used vehicle delivery.

 

[Lectric_Agent]

Love mine :]
P85D 2015

Where did you get that aftermarket front splitter?

 

[Whitelighting]

I'm torn by what seems like an impossible choice:

- 2015 85D 25k miles
- 2016 facelift 75D 45k miles

About the same price. I love the facelift but I'd love as few miles as possible and as new car as possible. On the other hand I hear good things about 85 batteries.

Do it. I bought the same car back in May and I love mine. Shows 244 miles at 100% charge and looks great and drives even better. You give up some of the cool upgrades the M3 is getting but it's a doll car with a solid battery.

I agree I think the 85 batteries have shown to be the best in terms of battery degradation. What a lot of people don't realize is that the 2014 P85D had a range of 242. Compared to 253 for the 2015. I have noticed a lot of owners of the P85D having almost 242 if not a few miles more like stated in this post if Instructor911 is referring to the 2014 P85D. Even if he is referring to the 2015 model that is still much better than most if not all P90D's and some P100D's understanding the relation based on the percentage of the range lost not exact miles. Meaning 15 miles lost for a P100D would be close to 5% (15.75) and that would equal about 12 (12.65 @ 5%) for 2015 P85D

 

[Whitelighting]

I would guess that $100 is now 100% non-refundable if you refuse used vehicle delivery.

Yes, I think Tesla knows a lot of stupid people who know they probably won't qualify will just pay the $100 and Tesla will just keep that lol

 

[Whitelighting]

An interesting graph I found here about color value on 2014-2016 Teslas. Apparently red, silver and white are the colors which get used car price premium.
View attachment 464488

Very interesting thanks for that info

 

[Shadious]

Da

I agree I think the 85 batteries have shown to be the best in terms of battery degradation. What a lot of people don't realize is that the 2014 P85D had a range of 242. Compared to 253 for the 2015. I have noticed a lot of owners of the P85D having almost 242 if not a few miles more like stated in this post if Instructor911 is referring to the 2014 P85D. Even if he is referring to the 2015 model that is still much better than most if not all P90D's and some P100D's understanding the relation based on the percentage of the range lost not exact miles. Meaning 15 miles lost for a P100D would be close to 5% (15.75) and that would equal about 12 (12.65 @ 5%) for 2015 P85D

Dang, and I thought I memorized all the stats! I assumed it was 253. My car at full charge still gets 233 miles. Only 5% degradation after 85,900 miles. That’s amazing!

 

[Whitelighting]

Da

Dang, and I thought I memorized all the stats! I assumed it was 253. My car at full charge still gets 233 miles. Only 5% degradation after 85,900 miles. That’s amazing!

Really you shouldn't be mad or really know that since Tesla lies about the range of the P85D and P90D. Specifically the 2014 P85D getting 253 and a P90D getting 270. Only a 2016.5 gets 270 and also can do 0-60mph(1ft) in 2.6 seconds. The 2015 and 2016 P90D/DL gets 253 as does the 2015 and 2016 P85D. This is why I am saying that the ludicrous really doesn't work for a P85D. It may get you a tad faster start but really no difference because of the amps allowed to be pulled by the battery . The P90D and P90DL is also very subtle as far as increased performance with ludicrous added. It wasn't until the 2016.5 P90DL that the 90 battery could pull I believe 1700- or 1800 amps which affects the speed especially the acceleration.. hence 0-60mph to be as good if not better than a lot of P100DL's. The battery is reaching it's top speed faster but will get caught in the 1/4 mile every time. This is also why the 2016.5 P90DL suffers complete battery replacement more than any other battery because it is being pushed to hard for the battery to handle it excessively. And why the P85D has the least issues. Higher amps is going to lead to more battery degradation, especially if it's a smaller battery like an 85 or 90 being pushed at the same amps of a 100 battery. Also why the Raven is not as fast as some of the earleist P100DL's. Tesla obviously had a hard on to break 0-60mph records when they were first releasing the 85, 90 and 100 battery. Than they realized it was causing the batteries to damage a rapid rates if you were someone who constantly used max power/ludicrous plus. Tesla has learned from their mistakes and continues to change amps from initial take off/launch mode accordingly. That's why the raven continues to gain speed even though it is not as fast 0-60 as some of the first P100DL's that were tested years ago.

 

[Instructor911]

Yes, I think Tesla knows a lot of stupid people who know they probably won't qualify will just pay the $100 and Tesla will just keep that lol

Mine is 2015

 

[Whitelighting]

Da

Dang, and I thought I memorized all the stats! I assumed it was 253. My car at full charge still gets 233 miles. Only 5% degradation after 85,900 miles. That’s amazing!

You actually have around 4% degradation 242x.04=9.68 miles

 

[Stan Moraski]

Okay, I put a deposit on a 2015 P85D, 34,000 miles, titanium, carbon fiber for $50,200. Seems like a great deal, or should I hold out till spring and think prices will go south of $50K?
Looking for my usual forum friends for direction.

 

[Instructor911]

That's a great price for a great car. I wouldn't wait.