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good idea or bad idea unbiased opinion please??!1

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by speedyellow08, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. speedyellow08

    speedyellow08 Member

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    Presently own a software limited 60kW battery. Car is 3 months old and driven about 5K miles so far. Thinking about swapping it for a loaner car which has 60kW or 80kW. Number one reason for the current thought is range limit and lack of twin charger. Your opinion please. Not interested in spending another 11K to enable the software limit alone. Willing to spend reasonable amount to have bigger battery and Twin charger.
     
  2. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    Not enough information here. What are your road trip habits? How often will you drive a distance where you need the larger pack? Do you go places where there are chargers >40A? How long do you stay at those places? Do you have a second vehicle you can take instead for longer trips? You're willing to pay a reasonable amount for the upgrade so maybe you've implicitly answered these questions. Have you talked to Tesla about trade in value and costs for loaners to determine the cost differential?

    I got the 85kWh battery and have been glad I did so. Makes my trips to Boston painless and will reduce any concerns in the winter. I regret not getting twin chargers now, but I think that might recede with a greater buildout of the SC network. I don't go off the beaten path very often.
     
  3. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Honestly, removing the software limit is the same thing as rebuying a "true, blue" 60 kWh version, just with 5,000 less miles if you go the new car route. You're likely to lose more on the trade (although let the numbers speak for themselves). I'm not sure that will be worth it for the dual chargers.

    You're going to hear a lot of people tell you that 40A charging is just fine. I have 80A charging because there are times I need a quick turnaround - I come home from the airport (65 miles), pick up my wife and kids, and run quickly to my in-laws' (150 miles) all in the same day and don't want to risk the occasional high-wind problems on I-70 across the plains being a range issue. If you need this type of charging, then you'll want to go with it, but most people will likely tell you that overnight charging is sufficient for them. My good friend Lloyd is really lobbying for the high-powered charger installs out there, but unfortunately you will find few of them in the field. Depending upon how long you want to keep the car, you can consider whether you're not going to get value out of it, or whether it's "future-proofing".

    We need a whole host of information before I could give you my thoughts on 60 kWh vs. 85 kWh... what's your driving style, how many trips do you take between 160 miles and 250 miles on an occasional or regular basis? Do you need the additional range?

    For me, it would likely come down to three questions... first, do I need 85 kWh or is it just a convenience? Second, the price - what's the all-in price of your loaner trade vs. the $11k unlimiting - if 60 kWh is still an option? Third, are there any factors that would drive me to get the dual chargers, or are there regular opportunities to use higher power charging? When Superchargers are prevalent, will I need to worry?
     
  4. tpoltron

    tpoltron Member

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    Hi There,
    Why do you feel the need for the twin charger?
    Most have us have come to realize that a 14-50 where you sleep is plenty cause you have all night to charge.
    There only seems to be a couple conditions that really make the twin chargers desirable:
    1) if you frequently empty the battery during the day and need a quick top up before you head out for the evening
    2) if there are high current ie 70 Amp J1772 chargers near you. Rare near me.
    The bigger 85 kWh battery is though nice for trips and going days between charging - more like a gas car.

    edit: ha FlasherZ predicted my response while I was typing it!
     
  5. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    What I have found with posts like this, is you probably have made up your mind, but want validation--which is fine.

    - How many miles do you drive a day?
    - How many long road trips do you take per year (Austin, Dallas, etc)?
    - Do you live in the Woodlands and commute to Sugarland, or live in Central Houston and everything is close?
    - What are they offering for your car and what are they selling demo for?

    Keep in mind it's a demo car--put ride those pretty hard. Be prepared for a car that's probably not in all that perfect a shape.

    Personally I wouldn't waste the money now, but answering the above with help.
     
  6. Crispix

    Crispix Member

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    Yeah, need more information on the reasoning for the twin charger. Least expensive route:

    1. Pay to unlock the full 60kwh. Boom! You have 200 mile range.
    2. Drive the car. Decide later if you really need to charge faster than a single charger.
    3. Have a second charger installed when you're ready.

    The total cost of all the above (and you might not even feel a need for the second charger) is probably going to be less than the loss you take on trading up. Anyone here know how to figure out the math on that?
     
  7. speedyellow08

    speedyellow08 Member

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    Thank You all for the input. I initially ordered the car thinking 40kW will give me about 180- 200 miles, which I thought will be sufficient to drive back and forth to work. I was surprised to hear from the sales person at the time of delivery "it is advisable to charge the battery up to 70% for a better battery life". This brought my range to 139 miles. My round trip to work is about 70 miles and I loose some miles to Vampire drain. I am physician and sometimes I need to turn back to the hospital as soon as I come home. I can potentially come across this situation in a single night. There is no top off facility at my work place and I do not have time to spend at eVgo locations.
    Twin charger will give me a faster turn around time even if have to make a quick turn around. I am not planning to take long trips to cities around Houston at this moment. I will definitely consider the longer trips if I pay for the 60kW and given the privilege of using the super charging stations. Here again the twin charger comes handy.
     
  8. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Ah come on doc, get a new P85+ with duels and be done with it.
     
  9. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    If you are software locked to 40 there is no reason to hold the charge to 70%. The extra 20kwh you don't have access to is keeping you from filling the cells.
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I'd get the 85kWh rather than pay the $11k up upgrade. There might be options like parking sensors that are out now which weren't not when you ordered. If that is not an option, go ahead and charge to at least 90%. As said, your car is really a 60kWh so even the software limited 100% isn't really a full battery.
     
  11. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I'm confused where you got this impression from.
     
  12. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Of all the options I agonized over getting, the twin chargers was not one of them. For me, it was a no-brainerwith all the high power J1772 chargers around here. I'll bet at least 2/3 of the public chargers I've used are of the 90 amp variety.
     
  13. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    :jealous:
     
  14. Crispix

    Crispix Member

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    Do the 40s even give an option to select a different charge level? I can't see why anyone with a 40 would charge less than 100% every night because no matter what you do you're always charging to 2/3 of capacity and never have to worry about degradation.
     
  15. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    Two items:

    * Check with Tesla, but I'd assume the 40kWh virtual limit is distributed across all cells therefore charging to your 100% actually means charging only to part of the capacity and hence no degradation.
    * You don't need twin chargers for supercharging. You only need to enable supercharging in software (i.e. fork over the fee). Superchargers bypass the onboard chargers as they have them inside the SC facility. Also, twin chargers give you 22kW, superchargers go at 90-120kW :)
    * Twin chargers are useful if there are locations where you can use them. If you install a HPWC at home and actually have the infrastructure to feed it at high amps too, then it'll for sure cut the time in half allowing for faster turn around if that's what you need. For me it was a no brainer as in Estonia all chargers are 400V 32A 3-phase i.e. 22kW and require twin chargers to take advantage of, but at home I'm gonna charge at or below what one charger can do as at home I don't have as many amps available.
     
  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    Has the OP actually gotten an estimate for the cost of having a HPWC installed? Electrical upgrades might be required.

    Heck (to make a long story short), electrical contractor finally got back to me today on installing a 30 amp 240 volt EVSE and it's a no can-do w/o $5K of work. They said my load center was insufficient. :( This is from applying for CEC Eligibility Criteria : EV Solutions. I think they'd have wanted my business and to be paid, but no way I'm spending $5K to do w/that for the Leaf I'm leasing for 2 years and where I don't even need to charge @ home (most of mine is done for free @ work).
     
  17. speedyellow08

    speedyellow08 Member

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    I have installed HPWC and can draw 80 amps from the wall.

     
  18. Crispix

    Crispix Member

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    Speedy, this sounds like a math problem. What's the cost of unlocking the 60kwh and having the second charger installed vs trading in for another car? With a full 200 mile charge you could make two round trips to work, and with the second charger you would charge for a commute in about 90 minutes.
     
  19. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    I've found 80A charging (twin chargers) to be VERY handy when visiting my regional Tesla Service Center. Sometimes I wait for my car to be serviced, and I usually need a 100% charge when I leave, so that I can make it back home. I've also charged at Tesla stores at 80A.
     
  20. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    There's a fellow in my town that has one, and he showed it to me. How it works is that it has the normal 60 slider, but you can't drag it beyond a certain point. It'll only go up to about 67% of the scale. You can actually see the rest of the scale, but there's no way to drag the slider any further. So I think his "Daily Range" goes from 50% to 67% as opposed to 90% like the rest of us with the top 10% labeled "Trip"

    He just charges as far as he can (no concept of normal vs. range) and it is just like charging a 60 kWh pack to 67% every day.
     

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