Good News?

[Vitold]

I think they failed to finish developing a more complex second row, and what is being delivered is the compromise. There are not many other good explanations on why making some straightforward seating would be so troublesome.

I suppose there's nothing straightforward about engineering a seat that is on single post, vented, tilts and slides while supporting seat-belt restrains that do not collapse during side or rear collisions.

I find it interesting that while Tesla is blaming seat supplier for ongoing delays they claim that seats are made in-house now.

 

[AudubonB]

I didn't see anything in the release, nor in the conference call, that uniquely fingered the seats as the delaying element. For example, perhaps seats were the second-biggest delay factor, and windshields were #1. [This is ALL conjecture, now] Tesla decided it could bring in house the seats, but glass forming is beyond them; they might have realized they could be better off by making their own seats and hope they could effect some way to get the glass supplier to speed up its production.
There ALWAYS will be one item that is the limiting factor. Rather axiomatic....

 

[Aljohn]

It was specifically stated during the call that the seats were a restraint. Tesla said they brought manufacture in-house to provide the needed parts, and expected to ramp to 700 or more Model X's a week in December. Tesla further stated that any part, including the seat mono-post, were not long-term issues. Whether that was the entire seat or just the mono-post, was unclear. The only other part was the Seals affecting bright work alignment. I took that to mean why we occasionally see the door handles and trim don't line up perfectly on the doors. The issue with the seals was not specifically indicated. Elon pointed out the "buy again at 97% to buy another Model S to, somewhat, refute the resent Consumers' Reports rating. He also pointed out that Consumers' was influenced by early Models S's that were incorrectly lubricated. Elon then pointed out that the design intent of the Motors - large and small - was to operate for a Million miles. That confidence is most likely what refuted the Consumers' Report the most.

 

[Trnsl8r]

I think they failed to finish developing a more complex second row, and what is being delivered is the compromise. There are not many other good explanations on why making some straightforward seating would be so troublesome. Another possibility is that the X has a new drive unit which has taken time to develop and test. Yet another possibility is that Tesla needed to concentrate on reaching 50,000 by building MS.

Missing a part from a supplier seems to be reaching for a benign explanation that doesn't reflect poorly on Tesla's ability to execute.

In the long run, not missing yearly production by a significant margin is probably the most important strategy.

An alternate strategy might be to not deliver sub-par cars that will disappoint customers just to be able to meet an arbitrary self-imposed delivery target. Just saying.

 

[austinEV]

I suppose there's nothing straightforward about engineering a seat that is on single post, vented, tilts and slides while supporting seat-belt restrains that do not collapse during side or rear collisions.

I find it interesting that while Tesla is blaming seat supplier for ongoing delays they claim that seats are made in-house now.

both can be true. the seat suppliers failure put them behind schedule forcing them to bring production in house.

 

[vandacca]

It was specifically stated during the call that the seats were a restraint. Tesla said they brought manufacture in-house to provide the needed parts, and expected to ramp to 700 or more Model X's a week in December. Tesla further stated that any part, including the seat mono-post, were not long-term issues. Whether that was the entire seat or just the mono-post, was unclear. The only other part was the Seals affecting bright work alignment. I took that to mean why we occasionally see the door handles and trim don't line up perfectly on the doors. The issue with the seals was not specifically indicated. Elon pointed out the "buy again at 97% to buy another Model S to, somewhat, refute the resent Consumers' Reports rating. He also pointed out that Consumers' was influenced by early Models S's that were incorrectly lubricated. Elon then pointed out that the design intent of the Motors - large and small - was to operate for a Million miles. That confidence is most likely what refuted the Consumers' Report the most.

There was some confusion about the ramp up numbers. While some people heard "700 or more", what was actually said was "several hundred or more". Elon rarely gives such precise numbers like "700".

 

[MorrisonHiker]

There was some confusion about the ramp up numbers. While some people heard "700 or more", what was actually said was "several hundred or more". Elon rarely gives such precise numbers like "700".

I heard "several hundred" as well when I listed to the call.

 

[X Fan]

both can be true. the seat suppliers failure put them behind schedule forcing them to bring production in house.

Agreed and btw if complicated no guarantee that Tesla has better in-house knowledge to produce than a dedicated seat mfg. Let's hope this gets ironed out quickly and the units start to roll off the assembly line.

 

[AnOutsider]

I didn't see anything in the release, nor in the conference call, that uniquely fingered the seats as the delaying element. For example, perhaps seats were the second-biggest delay factor, and windshields were #1. [This is ALL conjecture, now] Tesla decided it could bring in house the seats, but glass forming is beyond them; they might have realized they could be better off by making their own seats and hope they could effect some way to get the glass supplier to speed up its production.
There ALWAYS will be one item that is the limiting factor. Rather axiomatic....

Might I point out that non folding seats and extended windshield were NOT part of the reveal in 2012? If those items are holding things up, then Tesla would have been wiser to deliver on what was originally shown and add niceties down the line.

It's not like buyers were saying "give me pedestals, shiny seat backs and panoramic windshield or no deposit!"

Who knows, we may have even been able to take delivery in 2013 as originally forecast.

 

[flar]

Might I point out that non folding seats and extended windshield were NOT part of the reveal in 2012? If those items are holding things up, then Tesla would have been wiser to deliver on what was originally shown and add niceties down the line.

It's not like buyers were saying "give me pedestals, shiny seat backs and panoramic windshield or no deposit!"

Who knows, we may have even been able to take delivery in 2013 as originally forecast.

The 2012 prototype did have a panoramic windshield and pedestals on the 2nd row seats. The only change was a different design of the pedestals and eliminating the crossbar between the A pillars which was behind the single pane of windshield glass that was always continuous all the way back to the falcon wing doors.

 

[Robbo]

I heard "several hundred" as well when I listed to the call.

Bloomberg's conf call transcript also had "several hundred per week by the end of December". --- Model X Production ramp up discussion - Page 16


Webster's says several means more than two, but fewer than many. Of course in Elon language........

 

[chickensevil]

Not to be negative Nancy but I count 6 X bodies in that photo. How many Founders' were there? ;-)

There are actually 7 in the photo (hint look in the top right corner of the photo)

that said it still doesn't prove anything since there have been at least 10 deliveries thus far of founders...

 

[goneskiian]

There are actually 7 in the photo (hint look in the top right corner of the photo)

that said it still doesn't prove anything since there have been at least 10 deliveries thus far of founders...

Missed that one! Thanks!

 

[KristianW]

If the 8 camera autopilot system from Mobileye is a major reason for the delay of the X, then I´m ok with that. I really hope this arrives before getting our car. Hopefully we will see this system in the X already before christmas.

 

[hill]

I suppose there's nothing straightforward about engineering a seat that is on single post, vented, tilts and slides while supporting seat-belt restrains that do not collapse during side or rear collisions.

I find it interesting that while Tesla is blaming seat supplier for ongoing delays they claim that seats are made in-house now.

Blame . . . . attribute is so much more benign. anyway ~ even making something in house doesn't mean that all the smaller components are made in house. I'm certain for example there's no hide tanning going on out back

.

 

[AudubonB]

Naah, that's what the Moderators' forum is for.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

The 2012 prototype did have a panoramic windshield and pedestals on the 2nd row seats. The only change was a different design of the pedestals and eliminating the crossbar between the A pillars which was behind the single pane of windshield glass that was always continuous all the way back to the falcon wing doors.

Huh. Well I'll be. Here's an overhead shot of the 2012 prototype from a 2013 article I dug up. Amazingly, the panoramic windshield is clear as day. How did that go unnoticed and unmentioned for so long?

 

[goneskiian]

Huh. Well I'll be. Here's an overhead shot of the 2012 prototype from a 2013 article I dug up. Amazingly, the panoramic windshield is clear as day. How did that go unnoticed and unmentioned for so long?

View attachment 100375

It didn't go unnoticed or unmentioned but it didn't get many of it's own threads. Found one back quite aways from earlier this year. It got mentioned quite a bit in the main "mule" thread as it was noticed a while ago that the mules had no A pillar cross beam.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

It didn't go unnoticed or unmentioned but it didn't get many of it's own threads. Found one back quite aways from earlier this year. It got mentioned quite a bit in the main "mule" thread as it was noticed a while ago that the mules had no A pillar cross beam.

I meant starting back as far as two years ago. The speculation, and it was just that, didn't start until this summer and that was based on heavily camouflaged mules. Turns out we had this photo showing the whole sheet of glass hiding in plain sight the whole time.

 

[goneskiian]

I meant starting back as far as two years ago. The speculation, and it was just that, didn't start until this summer and that was based on heavily camouflaged mules. Turns out we had this photo showing the whole sheet of glass hiding in plain sight the whole time.

Touché. I do remember it getting noticed but you're right that no one postulated that they might ditch that front cross beam.