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good samaritan shot dead by driver stranded snow

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by thegruf, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    While I happen to support tightening gun laws here, I'm surprised you aren't commenting on the fact he was believed to be drunk. No need to bring back prohibition? That seems to be a major issue here.

    Tragedy for the family, probably not a good example (pro or con) to support gun control.
     
  3. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Never. Help. Anyone. Too much risk. Too much liabiliy.
     
  4. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    fair comment, but a drunk guy stuck in the snow without a gun would not have ended up with a bereaved family.
    For sure a drunk guy driving a car can do a lot of harm too.

    I realise gun control is a majorly sensitive issue in the US, just from this side of the pond it is difficult to understand how you put up with such a high level of gun related fatalities.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I live here and I don't understand it either. My only conclusion is that the NRA spends a lot of money purchasing legislators and advertising. A lie told often enough takes on the semblance of truth.
     
  6. YoungStranger

    YoungStranger Member

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    Well it is no use as a UK citizen debating this, but one of the reasons I surf on TMC is to listen and admire the way people go about typical day to day lives in the USA. Having a great job and working hard, skiing and surfing in California, driving a Tesla and eating at great restaurants is the American Dream, not swinging around a deadly weapon in public view. The lives described on this website are a great counterpoint to the fictional crime dramas such as Sons of Anarchy, Justified and Breaking Bad that I also enjoy. I'd like to visit (even my username is a quote from one of my heroes, a great American) butI really don't fancy visiting a country where every other car carries an untrained person with no legal responsibilities carrying an automatic weapon

    Jeez if you are so afraid of Car Jacking that you have to carry an automatic weapon with sniper sights in you then upgrade to ludicrous mode and get some bullet proof glass.

    - - - Updated - - -
     
  7. tga

    tga Active Member

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    [At the risk of being accused of blaming the victim...] Or just don't tell drunk/high criminals that you're about to call the cops on them.

    Personally, I don't stop to help people much these days, not because I fear for my safety, but rather I figure everyone has cell phones and can call for help on their own.
     
  8. CHGolferJim

    CHGolferJim Member

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    #8 CHGolferJim, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    Local media is reporting this guy was high not drunk, became belligerent to the point the good Samaritans felt they needed to call the police, and freaked out. Unfortunately, he had one of 100 million guns alleged to be owned in this country. No mention of contraband in his car, what he was on, or speculation why he was so worried about the arrival of police.

    PS: I was once robbed at gunpoint.
     
  9. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Please come visit. We're not all a bunch of gun-toting crazies, as the media likes to portray. In 2013, the FBI reports 8400 murders by firearms in the US. In a country of 320 million, that's >0.003%. You're not about to get gunned down stepping out your front door.
     
  10. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    You're absolutely right regarding world perception vs. reality of the US. I dated a Canadian for years and watched him struggle with his changing perception of Americans as he spent more time here with my friends and family.

    For what it's worth, in all my years, I've never once seen a gun drawn in public. Ever.
     
  11. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Ignoring law enforcement (and trips to the shooting range), I've seen a guns out in public twice (in both cases holstered on the owners' hips). First time was in line at an ice cream stand in MA (I suspect the owner might have been law enforcement out of uniform - John Q Public doesn't do that in MA). Second time was at a NH gas station, when 2 hunters got out of their truck to go inside to pay for gas.
     
  12. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Guns don't kill people....
     
  13. RAM_Eh

    RAM_Eh Member

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    Yes but Jerks can only be jerks if they don't have access to guns.
     
  14. purplewalt

    purplewalt Active Member

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  15. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #15 Xenoilphobe, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    My heart goes out to Jefferson Heavner and his family.

    NC has a death penalty and hopefully that dog (Martin Jacob Lee) gets put down with a nice lethal injection. Hearing stuff like this is when you want the police to use lethal force.

    NC state lawmakers' approval earlier this month Restoring Proper Justice Act. The new law amends the state's capital punishment procedures with the aim of restarting executions in North Carolina after a nine-year hiatus.

     
  16. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Only if they are a good person to begin with and follow the laws we make. Bad people will always have access to guns, regardless of the legislation.
     
  17. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    IMHO the only reason they've managed to litter the country with guns is because congressional districts are gerrymandered to such an extent that it is a clear perversion of Democracy. I am not against responsible gun ownership if someone wants to own a handgun for self defense but slightly over 50% of the US population supports common sense gun laws such as mandatory background checks and not having some idiot be able to buy an assault rifle like we lived in Yemen. I support such laws.

    I have a feeling even with gerrymandered districts they will have a hard time littering the country with assault weapons as the demographics of the country change. Couldn't happen fast enough but it will happen. Few civilized people want to live in a country that is being turned into Afghanistan or Syria by the NRA.

    And those who miss parading around in assault weapons can always join the military.
     
  18. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #18 Xenoilphobe, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    I agree with your comment about gerrymandered districts and the bastardization of Democracy.

    However not some much about the comments on Syria - most "adult" males own assault rifles in those countries out of necessity. If guns were banned in Syria - most Christians would face genocide at the hands of their enemies. When we (NATO/US) disarmed the adult males in the Balkans - the local corrupt police took advantage of the disarmed population to sell the young teenage girls into organized crime brothels. It was only recently that Syria banned guns - a civil war quickly followed. I recommend you read the Syrian Peaceful Citizens Act - that banned all guns in Syria. (Civil War followed)http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_North_Syria_(Right_to_Bear_Arms)

    Had Mr. Jefferson Heavner been armed, he could have defended himself that cold night and he might have survived to be here to raise his young child.

    People kill people not guns - this criminal could have easily rammed him with his 2 ton weapon. I am all for mature ownership of assault weapons - you may think we live in a civilized environment, but that thin veneer quickly evaporates when things get tough - a disarmed state is a police state - our founding fathers understood that and insured that this right would be protected by the second amendment, it is unfortunate that we have a lot of criminals who disregard the laws.
     
  19. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    Well argued points but as an example I'm not sure I would describe the UK as a police state.
    Not saying that we don't have our problems here either.

    Comparing the (mostly) desperately unfortunate people of Syria with the US is also a bit of a stretch, as in you are comparing a 1st world democracy with a 2nd? world dictatorship.
    Maturity and stability of government is part of the equation.

    Another state/country that embraces armed civilians is Switzerland.
    I know little of the detail of how this works for them, but certainly we hear much less in the way of tragic shootings, maybe they are just smaller, but also maybe there are lessons for us all from there.

    *could* - that is if he was prepared for it - which I rather doubt would be the case.
    In any event no guns would equal no fatalities, any guns would lead to one or more fatalities.

    We know little of the assailant, he could have been rotten to the core and deserving of everything the law can throw at him, or he could just have been a stupid drunk family guy himself, embarrassed he'd got his car stuck and panicked when he heard the word police. Killing all the stupid drunks in the US and the UK for that matter sure would thin the population out a bit, in fact having been stupid drunk at least once in my life you'll probably have to put me on the list too.
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    1) Guns for self defense have a lot in common with not using seatbelts because there are a few cases where someone lived because they didn't use seatbelts. In most cases guns for defense end up shooting family members or neighbours. The main purpose of guns for defense is weapons manufacturer profits.

    2) In 1776 the military and civilians had about the same weaponry and an armed populace could stand up to a repressive government. By the time of the Civil War, it was harder to do due to the gatling gun, although those were in limited supply. Today it doesn't matter if your basement is full of AK-47s when the government can shell your house in the comfort of a tank from several miles away. Thinking that this protects you from a repressive government is just a fantasy.

    3) As far as Syria goes, you could make the case that the first thing that happened after lawyers were allowed to hold public office (before about 1850 lawyers were not allowed to be in Congress or the Senate because as Officers of the Court it would have been a conflict of interest--of course, it still is a conflict of interest) and Republicans were voted in was the Civil War.
     

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