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Goodbye Cobalt

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by Cosmacelf, May 2, 2018.

  1. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

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    During today’s May 2nd conference call, Elon mentioned that they are moving away from using Cobalt in their cells and might end up at very little Cobalt. I have no idea what chemistry they will be using instead....
     
  2. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    Goodbye may be a bit of an overstatement, however it is good to see that they are recognizing the supply issues with cobalt and moving to lessen their usage of it. They're still using a Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum cathode chemistry though, so they'll need some cobalt.
     
  3. SureValla

    SureValla Member

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    Jeffrey B. Straubel - Tesla, Inc.

    I think directionally, Rod, it's helpful to understand the different commodities and the trends that we're pursuing in the batteries. Being on a path to reduce cobalt usage, for instance, has been something we've been working on for literally several years now, and this has been extremely helpful in the overall cost per kilowatt hour, especially with recent commodity price movements. So, we can't really be quantitative, but that directionally is a pretty good trend.

    Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.

    Yeah, we think we can get the cobalt to almost nothing.
     
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  4. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    I would ignore what Elon says there, as he frequently exaggerates. JB's message is great though.
     
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  5. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

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    I missed this from the shareholder letter:

    Cells used in Model 3 are the highest energy density cells used in any electric vehicle. We have achieved this by significantly reducing cobalt content per battery pack while increasing nickel content and still maintaining superior thermal stability. The cobalt content of our Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum cathode chemistry is already lower than next-generation cathodes that will be made by other cell producers with a Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt ratio of 8:1:1. As a result, even with its battery, the gross weight of Model 3 is on par with its gasoline-powered counterparts.
     
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  6. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    This is what all the EV makers have been doing. GM dropped like 80% of the cobalt use.
     
  7. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

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    I am a bit confused about the last line from the shareholder report that said that as a result of swapping out cobalt for nickel, they have reduced pack weight. The weight density of cobalt and nickel are essentially identical...
     
  8. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    May not be a 1:1 trade off?
     
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    I said disagree, just because I wouldn't _ignore_ it. Elon Musk's statements should be taking as somewhere in the range [hyperbolic,lying).

    My rule is that when Elon Musk says "will" it should be read as "will try to". Similar case here.

    But yes, JB's statement is useful. Taken together with the "Supercharging won't be 350kW*" statement, it really points to Tesla's emphatic focus on driving down battery cost.

    * To all those people who got excited about the "children's toys" tweet: I told you so.
     
  10. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    On one hand you say not to ignore elon's statements, but in the next line you point out where one of his statements should have been ignored.
     
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  11. Economite

    Economite Member

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    #11 Economite, May 3, 2018
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
    According to Wikipedia, in the United States goodbye was said to the Cobalt back in 2010... get with the times, Elon :)

    Chevrolet Cobalt - Wikipedia
     
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  12. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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  13. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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