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Despite the knocks on the Bolt here (primarily being "It's made by GM" and "It's not a Tesla"), the Bolt is a very solid vehicle. If practicality, reliability, and the "it just works" factors are important, the Bolt will not disappoint.
If you want a conspicuous statement of how cool you are by showing off what you drive, well, outta luck then. I guess you keep waiting, and waiting...and waiting for a Model 3.
[sarcasm] it's always wise to publicly post your tax avoidance schemes [/sarcasm] . I am not going to point out every pitfall that you clearly have fallen into but be assured you've not yourself any favors discussing your situation here.
Especially when it's not much harder to build a business that MAKES money. While it would turn you into an Evil Capitalist and Business Owner, the rewards are higher than trying to burn money to avoid taxes.
If it falls in the scope of IRS allowance then there is nothing wrong with it. Show me where I can't claim mileage related to my business trips, where I can't claim donations to any number of non profits, where I can't court potential clients, or any number of things the IRS allows. Hell the IRS allows you to take clients on a multi day fishing expedition but you can't give a client a kick back for all the business they do with you. Unless you can tell me what portion of the tax code I or anyone else avoids then you're just blowing smoke up your own
I am not going to debate you on this, do what you want to do, I really don't care. all I know is that you cannot create writedowns on income that doesn't exist. in other words creating a business that is always in the red is going to have a tough time substantiating those little perks that you've mentioned. like I said I really don't care how or what you do regarding your taxes.
The company isn't always in red, I explained that. It is literally no different than any other company in existence. Hell, Tesla itself has been in the red for how long
Seriously, they've had what, two profitable quarters in like 10 years.
d21mike
Active Member
What's in the House tax bill for people
Repeals the Alternative Minimum Tax: The AMT, originally intended to ensure the richest tax filers pay at least some tax by disallowing many tax breaks, most typically hits filers making between $200,000 and $1 million today.
Those who make more than that usually find they owe more tax under the regular income tax code, so end up having to pay that tab instead.
Tax experts often note the AMT no longer meets its original purpose and further complicates an already complex tax code. But it's been kept on the books because it raises a lot of revenue. Repealing it would reduce revenue by $440 billion in the first decade, according to Tax Policy Center estimates.
The whole "this won't hurt Tesla" argument is so lame. Most people buy what they can afford (or stretch it a bit), even those who buy Model S/X. Once $7500 goes away, these customers are going alter their decisions on the composition on the vehicle they purchase. And unfortunately, my bet is the options that contribute most to profit margin will be cut. Less purchases of autopilot, bigger battery, etc...
Tesla may sell ~ 150,000 cars that should get $7500 credit first 2 quarters of 2018, then a bit more than that during the last half at $ 3750. If I assume half of those car buyers alter their decision and buy a car with reduced options (assume 1/2 of the credit loss, so still paying more than before), Tesla will lose 400 million in PROFIT next year.
That might be too conservative, it might be that the average purchase across all vehicles loses 1/2 of the rebate, Tesla will lose almost 1 BILLION dollars of profit in 2018. How in the heck will that not matter to their bottom line, need to raise capital, valuation, etc...?
Tesla may sell ~ 150,000 cars that should get $7500 credit first 2 quarters of 2018, then a bit more than that during the last half at $ 3750. If I assume half of those car buyers alter their decision and buy a car with reduced options (assume 1/2 of the credit loss, so still paying more than before), Tesla will lose 400 million in PROFIT next year.
That might be too conservative, it might be that the average purchase across all vehicles loses 1/2 of the rebate, Tesla will lose almost 1 BILLION dollars of profit in 2018. How in the heck will that not matter to their bottom line, need to raise capital, valuation, etc...?
cpa
Active Member
Yeah, that sounds about right. Generally, California taxpayers that are subject to AMT are thus because of our high personal income taxes and property taxes. Eliminate the deduction for taxes in concert with AMT, and we are back to square one.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is really missing the point or just pretending. I mentioned both that there are persons who will individually lose under the tax proposal. Do you really dispute that or do you believe in Santa Claus - presents for everyone! Second, I mentioned that society loses. Did you intentionally or unintentionally fail to address that point? How can we afford the budget deficit that this bill would cause? Again, do you believe that somehow cutting taxes raises revenue - another gift from Santa Claus? Stop looking in the mirror and start looking out the window. There's a whole world out there you know.
Breezy
Member
Ahh, okay. I figured that must include more than CO2. Thank you.
And people complain about a $0.07 per litre carbon tax.
cpa
Active Member
That chart linked above is pretty much useless to many of the returns that I prepare. People's incomes are so diverse--not everyone works for wages. Not everyone is able to utilize a pass-through entity. While we are on the subject of pass-throughs, I do not see any references to income generated by fiduciary entities that get passed through to the beneficiaries. A lot of trust-fund people receive substantial income from their ancestors' trusts that own the equity interests in businesses. Income for others consists of investment income, pension income, or rental real estate income. What about alimony received or paid?
If the estate tax is eliminated, will the step-up upon death be eliminated too?
This proposal is too bizarre for me to contemplate. If they want simplification and fairness--truly--then we should go to a gross receipts (individuals) and value-added (businesses) tax and move on. Enforcement and compliance would be much simpler. Then we would not have to worry about each and every different industry, business entity, or complex structuring to avoid (not evade) income taxes.
While I am ranting, most of you probably know that self-employment income is subject to paying both halves of FICA and Medicare taxes. However, rental real estate income is specifically excluded from self-employment income. So, if a taxpayer makes his living in residential or commercial rents, he pays zero self-employment tax. Maybe Congress should fix that.
If the estate tax is eliminated, will the step-up upon death be eliminated too?
This proposal is too bizarre for me to contemplate. If they want simplification and fairness--truly--then we should go to a gross receipts (individuals) and value-added (businesses) tax and move on. Enforcement and compliance would be much simpler. Then we would not have to worry about each and every different industry, business entity, or complex structuring to avoid (not evade) income taxes.
While I am ranting, most of you probably know that self-employment income is subject to paying both halves of FICA and Medicare taxes. However, rental real estate income is specifically excluded from self-employment income. So, if a taxpayer makes his living in residential or commercial rents, he pays zero self-employment tax. Maybe Congress should fix that.
If the credit is eliminated, then I'm cancelling my reservation. It's not that it's no longer affordable, but It's a luxury, not a necessity for me. I wasn't planning on trading in my current car (was going to keep it for longer trips as well as for the luggage capacity) so I'll just wait and buy one used. And yes, it may be an additional year or two, but I'm fine with that.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
ummgood
Member
One thing I haven't seen discussed in this thread is another possible effect for early line waiters. I think a lot of people were in a hurry to get the long range car with all the options so they could get the full tax credit. I think if the tax credit goes away I won't have any problem waiting a little longer for my Model 3. People won't feel rushed to take the black interior or some other option that wasn't ideal just to get the credit.
I am not sure if I'll cancel or not based on the credit but one thing it was doing was forcing me into a quick decision to get a Model 3 so I didn't throw away $7500. But if the credit goes away I can stop rushing and think through it more rationally. For example should I wait and see if there is ever going to be a tow hitch. Should I wait and see how much the models that aren't announced cost? Maybe there will be a sunroof? I think it might bite into the people who might have been rapid buyers at the beginning and allow them to take their time and wait.
I am not sure if I'll cancel or not based on the credit but one thing it was doing was forcing me into a quick decision to get a Model 3 so I didn't throw away $7500. But if the credit goes away I can stop rushing and think through it more rationally. For example should I wait and see if there is ever going to be a tow hitch. Should I wait and see how much the models that aren't announced cost? Maybe there will be a sunroof? I think it might bite into the people who might have been rapid buyers at the beginning and allow them to take their time and wait.
