Government regulations of L2 driver assist systems

[diplomat33]

Yes, they spend an inordinate amount of time and money writing vision for lidar.

And I think it's I wasted effort that should have been used by them to work on computer/camera vision.

Waymo did not sacrifice any effort by spending too much time on lidar. They've developed excellent computer vision as well. The fact is that camera vision alone is not enough to do safe autonomous driving because there are some situations where camera vision won't work. So if you want safe autonomous driving, it is very helpful to have both lidar and camera vision because they compliment each other. Lidar will help you in those situations where camera vision does not work.

 

[pilotSteve]

You forgot to add this one:

Yeah!!! This is EXACTLY what I bought (well... paid Tesla $$$ for) in 2017. Except my S90D doesn’t quite drive itself like this....

 

[banned-66611]

So your argument is that one crash means a system is "ineffective" ?

No.

My argument is that if it's possible to so easily and completely circumvent it to the point where you can be playing a game on your phone then it is inadequate. The more safety critical a system is the harder it needs to be to circumvent.

 

[banned-66611]

What happened to personal responsibility?

The problem is it's not just responsibility for yourself. If you want to take insane risks with your life then that's one thing, but the roads are a shared space and your recklessness could get me killed.

That's why you need a driving licence. Personal responsibility was not enough even back when it was just a horse and cart, now we have machines weighing tonnes and hurtling down the road at 80 MPH+ it's just not an option.

 

[drtimhill]

That's why you need a driving licence. Personal responsibility was not enough even back when it was just a horse and cart, now we have machines weighing tonnes and hurtling down the road at 80 MPH+ it's just not an option.

So actually you are arguing for all cars to have driver attentiveness systems for use at all times, not just when the car is in some autonomous mode.

 

[banned-66611]

So actually you are arguing for all cars to have driver attentiveness systems for use at all times, not just when the car is in some autonomous mode.

It's not a terrible idea. Many modern cars do have such a system, e.g. Hyundai and Kia, although it just beeps and can be disabled.

 

[drtimhill]

It's not a terrible idea. Many modern cars do have such a system, e.g. Hyundai and Kia, although it just beeps and can be disabled.

Agreed. At some point we will reach (have reached?) the point where L2 self-driving cars will be safer than the average human. In that case the nag system is more important when the car is being manually driven.

 

[Daniel in SD]

IIHS weighs in:
Automated systems need stronger safeguards to keep drivers focused on the road

 

[mikes_fsd]

If the driver fails to respond, the automated system should deploy the hazard lights and gradually slow the vehicle to a stop. The driver should be locked out from accessing the system for the remainder of the drive.

Strange, that is what my Tesla does currently, so they just want you to add more junk to the visual + audible alert like vibration and brake pulsing.

Tesla's implementation is even more strict then IIHS's as Tesla will lock you out if you reach 3 red alerts on a drive.

 

[diplomat33]

Strange, that is what my Tesla does currently, so they just want you to add more junk to the visual + audible alert like vibration and brake pulsing.

Tesla's implementation is even more strict then IIHS's as Tesla will lock you out if you reach 3 red alerts on a drive.

No, they recommend more than that. They recommend that the driver be able to make steering adjustments without automatically disengaging auto steer. They also recommend multiple driver attention methods like having torque AND camera, not just one or the other.

 

[mikes_fsd]

@diplomat33 do you understand that most posts that quote something imply that as the context of the reply?

My Tesla will do what they recommend if you do not respond to the nags. I did not comment on how do you determine if you the driver is paying attention.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Strange

Why is it strange?

 

[mikes_fsd]

Why is it strange?

Sarcasm is hard to convey on a forum.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Sarcasm is hard to convey on a forum.

I detected the sarcasm I'm just not sure what the reason for it is. The fact that Tesla is already following some of the IIHS recommendations shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[diplomat33]

@diplomat33 do you understand that most posts that quote something imply that as the context of the reply?

My Tesla will do what they recommend if you do not respond to the nags. I did not comment on how do you determine if you the driver is paying attention.

Yes, they also recommend physical alerts, that you call "junk".

But more importantly, saying that Teslas do the alerts when Tesla does not use the recommended driver monitoring method misses the greater point: Having the best alerts is pointless if your underlying driver monitoring system is inadequate. That's why I brought up the other recommendations because they are relevant and connected to the safety issues that the IIHS is addressing. You can't just talk about alerts without also talking the driver monitoring system itself.

 

[mikes_fsd]

But

here we go again...

 

[mikes_fsd]

Byton K-Byte that are scheduled to start production later this year will also include lidar.

Looks like Byton "bit" the dust... and won't be producing anything let alone FSD cars. https://twitter.com/ray4tesla/status/1277843175294373888

 

[diplomat33]

Looks like Byton "bit" the dust... and won't be producing anything let alone FSD cars. https://twitter.com/ray4tesla/status/1277843175294373888

Why are you telling me this twice?

There are plenty of full autonomous cars on the road now that use lidar.

And there are ZERO full autonomous cars are the road today with camera only.

 

[mikes_fsd]

There are exactly ZERO fully autonomous cars on the road today!
Lidar or no-Lidar!

 

[diplomat33]

There are exactly ZERO fully autonomous cars on the road today!
Lidar or no-Lidar!

Maybe nobody has achieved L5 yet but there are lots of lidar equipped robotaxis that can drive autonomously in the city with no driver intervention. That's far better self-driving than Tesla has shown so far. I'd say the lidar approach has produced far better results for autonomous driving so far than the camera-only approach.