Graphene Polymer Battery 497 Mile Range

[Buckeye2320]

Could this power the next Model 3?

The Spanish company Graphenano has introduced a graphene polymer battery that could allow electric vehicles to have a maximum range of a staggering 800 kilometers (497 miles). The battery can also be charged in just a few minutes.

The company notes that the battery is designed for a number of uses, and could be put in houses, bicycles, drones, and even pacemakers. Dubbed Grabat, the batteries will be manufactured in Yecla, Spain and will have an energy density of 1,000 Wh/kg (for comparison, lithium batteries generally have a energy density of 180 Wh/kg). Grabat will also have a voltage of 2.3 V.

Scientists Develop a Better Battery, Thanks to Graphene

 

[Nomad]

Is there a list of traits that a cell must have to compete with Panasonic and Tesla's cells?

• Specific Density (Wh/kg)
• Energy Density (Wh/m[SUP]3)[/SUP]
• Voltage
• Charge Time
• Discharge Cycles

What are the others? How many has Graphenano checked off? It's worth noting that they plan to have a prototype available by the middle of the year. So what do they have to show right now? The video doesn't offer much insight.

 

[mdevp]

As Elon has repeatedly said, talk is cheap in the battery tech world.

 

[widodh]

We are all hoping for this major breakthrough, but before somebody actually shows us a prototype which works it is 'vaporware'.

This battery might be table to charge quickly, but how quickly can it discharge? That for example is rather important in a EV. You want to be able to reach 100km/h within a few seconds.

 

[AudubonB]

This thread duplicates one that showed up 3-4 days back...and included extremely caustic criticism of the Spanish company.

 

[roblab]

Having dealt with Tesla since about 2006, I have found that Tesla pretty much knows what is going on in the battery world. They have battery testing and R&D that is considered by some to be best in the world. They are leaders in the battery field.

They get calls from all sorts of "companies" who have come up with new "technology" all the time. Tesla tells them to send a sample. Talk is worthless. Videos are worthless.

I don't think that anyone here will spot some great new battery before Tesla has already seen it, tested it, and dismissed it, or possibly figured out how to incorporate it into the car. But most likely tossed it.

Tesla people are smarter than I am, probably smarter that all of us here. Well, then there's Audie. But I trust Tesla a whole lot before I would trust some new battery chemistry to sneak up out of nowhere.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Graphene, huh. I wonder if this battery is any better than all the other batteries under development that use graphene?

 

[Grendal]

Having dealt with Tesla since about 2006, I have found that Tesla pretty much knows what is going on in the battery world. They have battery testing and R&D that is considered by some to be best in the world. They are leaders in the battery field.

They get calls from all sorts of "companies" who have come up with new "technology" all the time. Tesla tells them to send a sample. Talk is worthless. Videos are worthless.

I don't think that anyone here will spot some great new battery before Tesla has already seen it, tested it, and dismissed it, or possibly figured out how to incorporate it into the car. But most likely tossed it.

Tesla people are smarter than I am, probably smarter that all of us here. Well, then there's Audie. But I trust Tesla a whole lot before I would trust some new battery chemistry to sneak up out of nowhere.

Does Tesla have a team of scientists working on their own battery chemistry? Or do they use Panasonic to develop their battery chemistry? Or work together?

I've been curious how Tesla does this.

 

[WillH]

Understanding Lithium Ion batteries.
Professor Jeff Dahn - WIN Seminar Series - YouTube

Dr. Jeff Dahn talks about battery technology and the breakthroughs that they've made in testing batteries and accurately predicting their lifespans.

It's one of Dr. Dahn's graduate students that heads up Tesla's battery division.

 

[David99]

Every post about any other battery system will be ripped to shreds here. Yes battery technology is one of the biggest things in the near future. It's a huge market and thus a lot of people and companies try to get investor money by making bold statements about their breakthrough battery technology. But let's also look at it from the other side. Tesla has invested in one battery technology and has every interest in protecting this investment. Any competing battery technology is a threat to them. So it's in Tesla's interest to bash, ridicule and dismiss any alternative. We have no way of knowing how valid all these efforts are and if there is potential or not. Let's just keep an open mind and not bash every new battery technology just because we are Tesla fans.

 

[Canuck]

As Elon has repeatedly said, talk is cheap in the battery tech world.

Yes, and he goes further to say:

“My top advice really for anyone who says they’ve got some breakthrough battery technology is please send us a sample cell, okay. Don’t send us PowerPoint, okay, just send us one cell that works with all appropriate caveats, that would be great. That sorts out the nonsense and the claims that aren’t actually true.”
Tesla CEO Elon Musk On Breakthrough Battery

But let's also look at it from the other side. Tesla has invested in one battery technology and has every interest in protecting this investment. Any competing battery technology is a threat to them. So it's in Tesla's interest to bash, ridicule and dismiss any alternative. We have no way of knowing how valid all these efforts are and if there is potential or not. Let's just keep an open mind and not bash every new battery technology just because we are Tesla fans.

Tesla has no interest in bashing other battery technology. That's just plain nonsense. If new battery technology can get 3x range and charge 10x as fast, bashing it will do no good. Telsa would need to jump on board or be left behind. Tesla is looking for new -- provable, reliable and working --- battery technology. It would be a game changer for them and a nail in the coffin of every ice. But everyone and their dog has a 3x range and charge 10x new battery so what you call bashing is what Tesla calls weeding out the bovine manure.

 

[jbcarioca]

One consistent theme from anyone who is knowledgable in energy storage technology, in my experience anyway, is that innovation, perhaps major advances, will happen. Various nano-technologies have enormous potential including graphene, silicon and severs, others, not to mention non-chemical solutions such as frictionless heavy-mass wheels, high pressure Pistons and others. Several of these will certainly be significant. I think Tesla is evaluating all of these and others. Will there be a sudden unanticipated breakthrough? Possibly, but I think Teska will be on it, whatever it may be, before it approaches commercial practicability.

 

[jaanton]

Hmm... Tesla has used several different battery chemistries but may have used just one cell package, the 18550.
The Models S and X are different from the original Roadster and different from the upgraded Roadster. Seems clear to me that they are better than your typical EV manufacturer regarding battery technology variation.

It would be stupid to ignore real advances. They're not stupid.

 

[Todd Burch]

Every post about any other battery system will be ripped to shreds here. Yes battery technology is one of the biggest things in the near future. It's a huge market and thus a lot of people and companies try to get investor money by making bold statements about their breakthrough battery technology. But let's also look at it from the other side. Tesla has invested in one battery technology and has every interest in protecting this investment. Any competing battery technology is a threat to them. So it's in Tesla's interest to bash, ridicule and dismiss any alternative. We have no way of knowing how valid all these efforts are and if there is potential or not. Let's just keep an open mind and not bash every new battery technology just because we are Tesla fans.

I've got to disagree with you on this one. You think Tesla fanboys are dissing alternative battery chemistries? Crazy talk.

It is very much in Tesla's best interest to find better battery chemistries, and Tesla will jump on the best one as soon as it's found to be viable and meet the criteria for automotive applications.

What's Elon's #1 goal? To accelerate the advent of the electrification of automobile transport. Greater range and battery performance is the #1 way to do that.

Tesla could change battery chemistries without significantly disrupting existing investments they've made. In fact, they're already slowly adding more graphite to their anode. That's how the 90 pack came to be.

To add to the second post in this thread, there are lots of additional factors to consider:

-Degredation curve
-Performance/longevity at various temperatures
-Tolerance to vibration (road bumps, etc.)...is the anode brittle?
-Safety
-Battery toxicity and recyclability
-And more

 

[JOEV1]

Does anyone ever think about the infra structure needed to transfer that much power / energy to such battery? Present super chargers could not handle it. The only advantage that I see is the power to weight ratio. Which would really become an important factor. Instead of carrying half a ton under the car, it would merly be a fraction of that.
Imagine what that would do to 0 - 60 times!!

 

[bxr140]

You think Tesla fanboys are dissing alternative battery chemistries? Crazy talk.

Not so crazy.

Every battery thread on the forum inevitiably has some automaton reply that contains no redeeming value other than a tired re-paraphrase of Elon's 'don't send a ppt' quote. At this point, everyone knows the quote and everyone agrees with it...and everyone also knows that progress has to start from somewhere. So why not just start there and not re-hash what we already know?

Intended or not, those responses seem to serve no other purpose than to denigrate anything that is not tesla technology.

 

[Canuck]

Not so crazy.

Every battery thread on the forum inevitiably has some automaton reply that contains no redeeming value other than a tired re-paraphrase of Elon's 'don't send a ppt' quote. At this point, everyone knows the quote and everyone agrees with it...and everyone also knows that progress has to start from somewhere. So why not just start there and not re-hash what we already know?

Intended or not, those responses seem to serve no other purpose than to denigrate anything that is not tesla technology.

Until you've looked at a number of these claims in detail and, time and time again, realize many are just slick advertising bordering on being con artists, with most just looking for fast money from investors to burn on things other than actual battery technology, I can understand your position.

I've stopped digging into them and I am waiting for the actual cell because it just ends up being a waste of my time finding out how we are being conned...

The Atlantic:The Organic Battery From Japan That Could Spawn The Next Tesla

But you're welcome to start where ever you want. When you find one, please let me know. I'm quite certain it's coming, but there's going to be a lot of BS to weed through until then and giving each one it's own thread and assumed merits is not something I'd recommend. Hence the "show me the cell" Elon Musk quote which I intend to put in each new "battery breakthrough" thread since, despite what you may think, not everyone who reads these forums and threads knows all about Tesla, and knows this quote, and it's best not to mislead people about new battery technology until it is actually proven. To me, there's a whole lot of "redeeming value" in doing that, to borrow your words.

 

[Todd Burch]

Yeah, still sticking with my opinion that it's crazy talk. I'm a Tesla fan, and I wouldn't oppose a new battery technology.

It's really hard to find a Tesla driver that opposes technological innovation. Can you find one?

Better storage would make EVs more viable for the masses. Why would people oppose that?

Basically, the responses you hear are because:

1) A significantly different battery chemistry would need years of study before it hits the market.

2) There are hundreds of these announcements every year. How many have come to fruition? None yet. Not to say it won't happen--it will. But just about every one has turned out to have a significant drawback of one type or another.

Having said all of that, I hope this turns out to be viable, because dense energy storage is the last hurdle for mass adoption.

And I'm confident that Tesla would love that too, and would be among the first on board if such a viable technology arrives.

 

[Fallenone]

I genuinely wish there is a battery breakthrough coming soon. But a good friend of mine who earned his PhD researching graphene's use in battery told me, graphene is decades away from being able to be the breakthrough at any industry level. All the "breakthroughs" are for publishing papers.

One consistent theme from anyone who is knowledgable in energy storage technology, in my experience anyway, is that innovation, perhaps major advances, will happen. Various nano-technologies have enormous potential including graphene, silicon and severs, others, not to mention non-chemical solutions such as frictionless heavy-mass wheels, high pressure Pistons and others. Several of these will certainly be significant. I think Tesla is evaluating all of these and others. Will there be a sudden unanticipated breakthrough? Possibly, but I think Teska will be on it, whatever it may be, before it approaches commercial practicability.

 

[igotzzoom]

To add to the second post in this thread, there are lots of additional factors to consider:

-Degredation curve
-Performance/longevity at various temperatures
-Tolerance to vibration (road bumps, etc.)...is the anode brittle?
-Safety
-Battery toxicity and recyclability
-And more

These are the really critical factors for an EV battery. It's one thing to have eye-popping performance in perfectly controlled lab conditions. Its a whole other thing to have consistent, reliable performance WITH longevity, and factoring in the randomness of human behavior and environmental variables (leaving plugged in for months at a time, un-plugged for months at a time, fully-depleted, vibration and shock resistance, extreme heat, extreme cold, etc.)