TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Great insideline track test preview of performance model S

Discussion in 'Model S' started by josh, Aug 15, 2012.

Tags:
  1. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,809
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    #21 SCW-Greg, Aug 15, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
    I think the Corvette has one of the best, if not the best at around 1g, but then again think about the tires and mass differential it has vs. the Model S. In a different league altogether.

    Edit: 2011 Proto-type Corvette was 1.04g, 2010 was .98g and the 2002 was a full 1g (with good tires).
    2011 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Carbon vs. 2010 Corvette Grand Sport vs. 2002 Corvette Z06 Comparison Test and Video

    The Model S at .86 is phenomenal.
     
  2. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Not sure what you mean by that. The tweet, I'd say, implies that the testers liked the subjective driving experience as well. A lot.
     
  3. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Just out of curiosity... what does the skidpad value depend on, except the tires?
     
  4. goyogi

    goyogi Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    416
    Location:
    ::Silicon Valley:: ::Home of Tesla::
    Another point to consider is ride comfort. The MSP has a pretty plush ride for a performance sedan. More aggressive suspension at the cost of some ride quality could bring it up to the handling level of the competition.
     
  5. contaygious

    contaygious Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Marina, San Francisco
    Crazy! The Porsche is 80k more expensive!
    Why does tc make you so much slower? Why can't you turn it off in tms then?
     
  6. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,101
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    #26 Zextraterrestrial, Aug 15, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
    I was hoping for better but the weight is really a key factor in skidpad #s
    still pretty damn awesome in slalom though!


    ... thinking about it. My rav4 has the same skidpad # I think. On my test drive (at Fremont) with a fully loaded car, I was getting onto the freeway and accelerating(but going 55 to begin with) into the last right turn. The TC barely kicked on and I was almost thinking I was going to slide into the merge sign for freeway traffic but it just kept holding and turning - there is no way that it has the same as my Rav4? I would have never made that turn at that speed.

    So I think the problem is - the S does better at different radius turns than the standard skid pad.


    ..Rav .76 - must have been thinking about the lexus # but the s KILLS the lexus anyway
     
  7. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,591
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    2009 Volkswagen Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4
    Just to compare...
     
  8. DSA

    DSA R #212 Twilight Blue

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    From these test results, it looks like the Roadster could actually have better handling than the Model S. The Model S certainly did well at Laguna Seca at the Refuel Races last month, taking the top spots over the Roadsters. There was a lot of talk that the Model S would have a much lower center of gravity to help it through turns and get around the track quicker. But the higher weight seems to be a bit of a detriment that may have been overcome by the skill of the Model S drivers back at the Refuel Races. Or the Model S's at the track were stripped down, which is likely. According to R&T, the Roadster had a skidpad number around 0.96, compared to Edmund's 0.86 here for the Model S and the Roadster had a slalom of 70.3mph compared to 66.8mph for the Model S. That's comparing apples to oranges as it's comparing Model S results from Edmunds to Road & Track results for the Roadster, but I'm betting it's close enough for government work, so to speak. Numbers only count for so much, but it looks like the Roadster could indeed maintain the performance crown in an apples to apples comparison. For example, if a professional driver drove both cars around Laguna Seca. The fact that it's even close when the Model S has much more weight, passenger space and cargo space is a testament to the engineering effort put into the Model S.

    Maybe the Roadsters could reclaim the Refuel Races crown next year after all!
     
  9. KenEE

    KenEE P1937 Reward Excellence!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    335
    Location:
    Texas
    We need to note that the test was done with (most likely) non-stock tires. The .86 was with 265's on the rear instead of the 245's that come stock.

    I've asked both the Editor and Tesla about it. Tesla just said the MSP ships with 245's. The Edmund's Inside Line Editor has not responded. At least one Forum Member posted that he was told the MSP ships with 265's on the rear. I would like to see this definitively cleared up.
     
  10. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,591
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Would be nice to know if that's a difference between the 'perf' rims and the 'normal' 21" rims.
     
  11. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Please also clear up whether other cars are tested with their standard tires. ;)

    I think the performance version ships with Continental tires. In any case, anyone who pays for a performance version might also buy the best tires for whichever purpose intended. On my last car I bought new tires without even looking at what the standard tires were. If competing cars are tested with pilot super or whatever, then Model S should get tested with same level tires, not just pilot non-super, since after the first set, it's always the owners choice.
     
  12. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17,797
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Right then, I'll challenge you to 10 laps at 90 degrees F. See which car goes around faster. It'll be the Model S, because the Roadster will be at 1/4 power limit due to motor overheating.
     
  13. KenEE

    KenEE P1937 Reward Excellence!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    335
    Location:
    Texas
    Norbert,

    They have to use stock everything in such a test or it is bogus. Otherwise where would it stop? If you can change tires then why not engine? Rip out a few hundred pounds of material from the car, etc...

    Of course mags test non-stock cars all the time, but they disclose the changes. I don't see any mention in the article or video.

    Someone posted that they could read the 265 in the closeup photo from the Test Gallery. I can't see it.

    2012 Tesla Model S Picture
     
  14. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    #34 Norbert, Aug 23, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
    The tires are something you have to change every once in a while, in any case. That's different than making a mod, which is an additional effort and cost (and replaces something you would normally keep). (Plus, as I said, I wouldn't be sure the other cars are tested with their standard tires, either.) To me it makes more sense to test them with comparable tires. They should have used the super version. Otherwise you are more testing the tires themselves, something not essential to the car at all.
     
  15. J in MN

    J in MN S60 P12635

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I tried to enhance it - not sure if it helps.

    Tire-size-265.png
     
  16. AndyM

    AndyM Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    You should ask CSI for help...
     
  17. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,048
    Location:
    Seattle
    or Teg
     
  18. Vger

    Vger Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
    Clearly says 245. So maybe Edmunds just wrote the wrong number down and propagated it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bingo! The Roadster will always be hampered in sustained hard driving by its inadequate thermal management (principally the air-cooled motor).

    This is also likely why the Model S performance degraded in repeated 0-60 runs. BUT, the cool thing is to see how LITTLE it degraded. Big advance over the Roadster. Can hardly wait for the next sports car Tesla builds with the current or newer technology.

    If the rumours of a huge motor upgrade in the works for the Roadster are true, one of the things they probably did was make it liquid cooled-- maybe even shoehorned in the Model S motor, as they did with the new RAV4 EV.
     
  19. nrcooled

    nrcooled P#8946 VIN 03225

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    572
    Location:
    NoVA
    The porsche is slower with TC on because of the fact that it is all-wheel drive. The Panamera Turbo S with a proper driver can launch VERY hard but it is also hard on the drivetrain to do that. With TC on it limits the power to the wheels to 1) put less stress on the drivetrain and 2) keep the car balanced and safe. This isn't a great comparison but my Evo and WRX (both AWD) were both significantly faster with TC off in a straight line.

    Remember that the MS is RWD and the Panamera is AWD so the numbers even being as close as they are is quite impressive.
     
  20. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    #40 CapitalistOppressor, Aug 24, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
    The skid pad numbers weren't what I expected either. It's not purely the weight since MSP was only a couple hundred pounds heavier than M5 or Panamera. My suspicion falls on how the testing is done. With an ICE engine you can modulate the engine to help the car around turns. An electric vehicle is different and the Edmunds tester specifically noted the fact that he couldn't use his normal techniques to help the car.

    However, in terms of racing it would be an advantage for an ICE vehicle since drivers actually do use the engine to help them turn corners so it's a real loss if Tesla isn't able to replicate this by tweaking the traction control somehow.

    Edmunds Skid Pad notes:

     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC