Green Car Reports: Model 3 quality is terrible

[T34ME]

It's a little disconcerting to read about headlights out of alignment with the front of the car, frunk lids that lie below the rest of the front of the car, mis-aligned panels with varying widths between panels.

It appears that most of these problems were with first production cars through VIN 2xxx or so and even those problems were corrected at the SC. It appears that most of these problems have been corrected in later production cars. I'm not concerned about it.

 

[Mark Z]

I am happy to wait at the end of the line.

 

[alloverx]

Telsa is not new at making cars, so this excuse should die. They even bought a company which is dedicated to setting up robots and car assembly lines. And yes all new models have issues. And yes normally after 1 year they are generally resolved. The decision to skip certain steps in the "new car build" process should be questioned. e.g. versus Audi running 250 pre-production cars around for months.

 

[NoTDI]

It appears that most of these problems were with first production cars through VIN 2xxx or so and even those problems were corrected at the SC. It appears that most of these problems have been corrected in later production cars. I'm not concerned about it.

I have seen 5xxx and 6xxx cars with same visual issues. I have not seen 7xxx and 8xxx cars so not sure if they are any better. So I’m still willingly waiting to configure. I have a friend in the auto industry who says it takes a while to iron out these type of production issues. However, I have not seen these type of issues from premium auto makers with their new models.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

As a former owner of one of these (2013 C-Max Energi), I think your description is not really correct. The hardware was very slow, and in addition there were numerous software bugs. I did not think it was difficult to use when it worked. There were some updates that could be done remotely, but they were difficult to do. At least one update required a dealer visit as I recall.

You might have a later system than what I was referring to.

Here is how Ford dealt with their JD power ranking problem.

How Ford pulled up its quality score

In any case my point wasn't about whether the hardware was slow, buggy or hard to use. It was that a lot of the problems reported with a car these days is the infotainment system versus the actual car itself.

 

[Sunlight]

I may have missed this clarified elsewhere so forgive me.

The constant harping on about panel gaps is confusing. Are all the panels stamped incorrectly out of dimensions - or are some and not others? Or are the gap irregularities due to the assembly process? Which can be corrected - ie adjusted later (eg trunk lid)?

Is this an assembly/robot issue that can be fixed over time or are the actual panel pressings poor? And I am surprised the 'correctable' issues aren't addressed prior to delivery as the cost to Tesla (in perception; trouble and cost) is huge when they let poor product out the door - even if they are chasing numbers.

However variable (unfixable) gaps do not actually affect the cars performance/build quality and are primarily cosmetic/quality perception (unless they induce wind noise) - they would have minimal influence for me. It seems some doors/windows may need adjusting as some cars are reportedly very quiet and others have wind noise.

I wonder if Tesla has found that some cars are worse that go down a particular assembly process/set of robots.

Or is Tesla still doing some (variable) hand assembly? I am surprised by these reports as I though Tesla had employed the Audi A4 assembly line expert and acquired the German company specializing in this stuff for the German car companies - where's the impact?!

By the way I thought the Green Car Report very sloppy and a vast generalization based on one problematic car and hearsay. Just like Munro lost me when he started to get 'theatrical'!

 

[MacGreiner]

I have seen 5xxx and 6xxx cars with same visual issues. I have not seen 7xxx and 8xxx cars so not sure if they are any better. So I’m still willingly waiting to configure. I have a friend in the auto industry who says it takes a while to iron out these type of production issues. However, I have not seen these type of issues from premium auto makers with their new models.

Agreed. Mine is a 53xx vin and still exhibits many of the so called earlier issues. I'm just glad to hear that my experience is relatively isolated in the big picture. From what I am reading, apparently you mostly get a good one, and sometime don't. I didn't.

 

[daniel]

... You say "if that bug you, you should wait a year." Remember we've been waiting two years now. It shouldn't be too much to expect that the most egregious of the types of production flaws mentioned should not be an issue.

I think that the most egregious issues are quite rare. Some panel-gap type issues maybe less so. Yes, we waited two years after placing our reservations, but we knew that the target date was years away, and we knew (or most of us did) that Tesla has had production delays with all its new models. It's common wisdom that there's always risk in buying the first model year of a new car. I bought my Prius in January of 2004, against the advice to wait a year, and never had any trouble, but Toyota is a long-established car maker with a history of extremely high reliability. And I didn't want to wait to enjoy that car, which, in 2004, was really cutting technology.

Similarly, I knew when I bought my Model 3 that I was taking a chance, in order to get this car a year sooner. But the advice is still sound: If the risk is too great for you, you should wait until the quality reaches a level you are comfortable with. I decided the risk was worth it because as bad as some of the reports are, they affect a very small percentage of the cars. But that was just me.

It's disappointing that it's taking Tesla so long to get its QC up to snuff, but I think they're working hard on it. And I think that people who cannot afford the risk, or don't want to take the risk, should definitely wait. Life's full of trade-offs.

I have seen 5xxx and 6xxx cars with same visual issues. I have not seen 7xxx and 8xxx cars so not sure if they are any better. So I’m still willingly waiting to configure. I have a friend in the auto industry who says it takes a while to iron out these type of production issues. However, I have not seen these type of issues from premium auto makers with their new models.

My car just arrived a few days ago, and it's a 5xxx. I'm surprised if there are 7xxx or even 8xxx out there yet.

 

[diamond.g]

I think that the most egregious issues are quite rare. Some panel-gap type issues maybe less so. Yes, we waited two years after placing our reservations, but we knew that the target date was years away, and we knew (or most of us did) that Tesla has had production delays with all its new models. It's common wisdom that there's always risk in buying the first model year of a new car. I bought my Prius in January of 2004, against the advice to wait a year, and never had any trouble, but Toyota is a long-established car maker with a history of extremely high reliability. And I didn't want to wait to enjoy that car, which, in 2004, was really cutting technology.

Similarly, I knew when I bought my Model 3 that I was taking a chance, in order to get this car a year sooner. But the advice is still sound: If the risk is too great for you, you should wait until the quality reaches a level you are comfortable with. I decided the risk was worth it because as bad as some of the reports are, they affect a very small percentage of the cars. But that was just me.

It's disappointing that it's taking Tesla so long to get its QC up to snuff, but I think they're working hard on it. And I think that people who cannot afford the risk, or don't want to take the risk, should definitely wait. Life's full of trade-offs.



My car just arrived a few days ago, and it's a 5xxx. I'm surprised if there are 7xxx or even 8xxx out there yet.

One of the guys I stood in line with has a 93xx vin assigned to him.

 

[emlombardo]

I'm surprised if there are 7xxx or even 8xxx out there yet.

Picking up my 81xx on Thursday.

 

[daniel]

Gosh! I suppose that means they are really speeding up production now. Cool!

 

[Carnook]

If Tesla would participate in the JD Power surveys, that would help gain some insight. But Tesla doesn't participate for whatever reason.

Two reasons:
They don’t feel they need to.
The results wouldn’t benefit them.

 

[Msjulie]

I think this has been mentioned elsewhere but this site is actually amassing a fair amount of data TrueDelta -- Real Car Owners Driving Real Car Information on many cars. I somehow ran into it years back and one of our ICE cars is 'tracked' there. At least for now, or until someone points out how it might be misusing data, I would suggest folks sign up and document their cars... it's a start anyway.

I do have a question, some have alluded to this as well. How is the quality issue defined - "sloppy" panel alignment or less than perfect assembly or "bad" design? We all have opinions about some UI choices so we might call those 'bad design' but the mechanics and systems of the car, how are they?

I have a friend who works at Tesla who continues to be excited at what is told to me to be superior/more advanced engineering/design choices over the S and X. The refreshed S and X will assuredly get these improvement quite likely, how can they not. How do we measure that?

My question(s) stem from this new owner experience - the car works perfectly as designed (best I can tell). There was a misaligned trim piece on the rear driver's side door since adjusted by service. One headlight is slightly less flush to the fender than the other, something I didn't notice but was pointed out to me and I pretty much ignore that issue. The gaps are larger than in our Audi A3 but I do expect a little of that as the programming of those assembly robots is a job, and frankly once the piece that was not-unseeable was adjusted, nothing hurts my eyes.

The bigger issues for me are also expected - the refinement of the software. Good example is a recent update that gives multiple wiper speeds but seems to cause folks to accidentally turn them on much more readily. It's a design issue *I think* but is fixable w/o retooling..

Bottom line I suppose is to remember Tesla is an infant car company, hype and media coverage aside, and I still believe they have had made bigger strides than the established 'pros'.

I do wish they had an official feedback/bug system though calling service to report things is meet with friendly responses, do we know what really happens to comments?

Have a good weekend!

 

[NoTDI]

There is also a lack of skilled labor for a new car company with very low production in Northern California. Everybody that’s hired needs to be trained which results in mistakes and quality issues. I think the stamping for the panels is fine as I don’t think it is that difficult of a task but the calibration of the robots takes trial and error and could take about a year to fine tune it to a point that the final product is free of defects visible to human eye.

 

[daniel]

I may have already said this, but I think it's critical to distinguish between cosmetic defects and safety/usability defects. I'd be extremely upset by a defect that made the car unsafe, or less safe than it would otherwise be. I'd be very upset by a defect that caused the car to be unusable. I'd be slightly annoyed by a defect that caused persistent noise. And I couldn't care less about a defect in panel alignment that was only noticeable to someone seriously looking for it.

Lumping all "defects" together is absolutely the wrong way to talk about car quality.

My Model 3 driver's side door requires a firmer force to close completely than either the Roadster or the Prius. A fussier person would call this a "defect." To me it's just a quirk. I don't care. Next time I have routine service I'll mention it, and if it's a matter of an adjustment they can adjust it. If it would require replacing the door, I won't bother with it. (The charge-port door on the Roadster was so stiff when I got it that I had to use a pry-tool to open it. At my first annual service I mentioned it, and the adjustment took the ranger about a minute. Since then it's been just right.) (The Model 3 charge-port door opens and closes itself, which IMO is just one more thing to go wrong later on. KIS!

 

[Need]

Should it be quality "control" is terrible? I don't have a M3, but I do think Tesla's quality control needs some work. I bought a MX in Dec 2017. The first time we turned on the windshield wiper in January 2018, the wiper went past the A-pillar on the driver side and destroyed the paint on the A-pillar resulting the car being in the body shop for 2 weeks to fix. The tech who fixed the wiper said it was installed incorrectly from the factory. This tell me that they have never turned on the windshield wiper to check. Maybe they never test any of them? Or did they just missed some? Either way, it is a quality control issue whether it is in the process or the execution.

 

[ölbrenner]

...takes trial and error and could take about a year to fine tune it to a point that the final product is free of defects visible to human eye.

Good. Only four more months left till everything is fine tuned.

 

[N5329K]

Should it be quality "control" is terrible? I don't have a M3, but I do think Tesla's quality control needs some work. I bought a MX in Dec 2017. The first time we turned on the windshield wiper in January 2018, the wiper went past the A-pillar on the driver side and destroyed the paint on the A-pillar resulting the car being in the body shop for 2 weeks to fix. The tech who fixed the wiper said it was installed incorrectly from the factory. This tell me that they have never turned on the windshield wiper to check. Maybe they never test any of them? Or did they just missed some? Either way, it is a quality control issue whether it is in the process or the execution.

Come on. How often does it rain in California?
Robin

 

[RayK]

Not often enough. Thankfully much less than OR.

 

[alloverx]

There is also a lack of skilled labor for a new car company with very low production in Northern California. Everybody that’s hired needs to be trained which results in mistakes and quality issues. I think the stamping for the panels is fine as I don’t think it is that difficult of a task but the calibration of the robots takes trial and error and could take about a year to fine tune it to a point that the final product is free of defects visible to human eye.

Tesla is not new, thats weak. They bought a company that specialized in assembly.
Other companies dont appear to have these basic issues.
Its all about priorities, If Tesla wanted the body construction to be perfect they could do it. It would just take double the time to make it.