Green Car Reports: Model 3 quality is terrible

[Electroman]

Other companies dont appear to have these basic issues.

You are correct. Other companies have far bigger issues. They simply don't know how to make long range EVs that drive themselves in the highway, that get new features every month.

So between these two I would gladly take a company that knows how to make amazing long range EVs with less than perfectly aligned body panels, over an dyno fuel car that has perfectly aligned body panels and spotless paint.

 

[Sportstick]

You are correct. Other companies have far bigger issues. They simply don't know how to make long range EVs that drive themselves in the highway, that get new features every month.

So between these two I would gladly take a company that knows how to make amazing long range EVs with less than perfectly aligned body panels, over an dyno fuel car that has perfectly aligned body panels and spotless paint.

There are other metrics used in the industry, such as TGW and TGR (the actual name used for the metric).....and there is good evidence that for some portion of the population, enough Things Gone Right (such as the EV powertrain and autonomous features, if you value those) can overcome the objection of Things Gone Wrong (quality, in this case). Back in the day, this is how the Jaguar brand survived...style, performance, and "character" overwhelmed dreadful quality for its buyers. Early Dodge Vipers were in the same situation. Toyota buyers are quite the opposite usually. Your personal point of view appears to support this concept as applied to Tesla, and is probably over-indexed among M3 buyers versus the total population. However, this does not turn the lack of EV powertrain into an "issue" comparable to the inability to properly build and finish bodies-in-white. Each company should be recognized honestly for its legitimate balance of TGW:TGR in assessing their products, and let the consumer chips fall where they may.

 

[Krugerrand]

There is also a lack of skilled labor for a new car company with very low production in Northern California. Everybody that’s hired needs to be trained which results in mistakes and quality issues. I think the stamping for the panels is fine as I don’t think it is that difficult of a task but the calibration of the robots takes trial and error and could take about a year to fine tune it to a point that the final product is free of defects visible to human eye.

It is very difficult to create/stamp Class A panels for cars. Aluminum panels are even harder and then considering the shaping of some of those panels, Tesla is making arguably some of the most difficult panels in the entire industry.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Tesla is not new, thats weak. They bought a company that specialized in assembly.
Other companies dont appear to have these basic issues.
Its all about priorities, If Tesla wanted the body construction to be perfect they could do it. It would just take double the time to make it.

I would have to respectfully disagree here. Tesla may not be exactly new but they are very much new to the types of volumes we are talking about with the Model 3. Whole new ballgame.

Dan

 

[daniel]

Tesla is not new, thats weak. They bought a company that specialized in assembly.
Other companies dont appear to have these basic issues.
Its all about priorities, If Tesla wanted the body construction to be perfect they could do it. It would just take double the time to make it.

I would have to respectfully disagree here. Tesla may not be exactly new but they are very much new to the types of volumes we are talking about with the Model 3. Whole new ballgame.

Dan

I agree with Dan. A decade is very new for a car company. And until 6 years ago its only product was a hand-built sports car. I agree with those who say we need to be open about both the good and the bad, and we also need to be realistic about the learning curve. Tesla had a lot of problems with the Model X, and from what I gather, there are fewer problems with the Model 3. We need to acknowledge those, but not over-blow them. A few of these cars have very serious defects. Some more of them have what I would call minor defects (cosmetic issues that do not affect safety or performance). And the great majority seem to be just fine.

And Tesla seems to be taking care of buyers better than most other car companies.

 

[Sportstick]

I agree with Dan. A decade is very new for a car company. ...And Tesla seems to be taking care of buyers better than most other car companies.

Agree again...not only are they new, but the M3 has the highest degree of steel of their products so far, and the welding technology for that seems to have also been their struggle in framing the bodies-in-white. They are doing lots well, although vehicle development and pre-launch testing is not yet their strength. When and where you are comfortable spending ~$50k for a car and how much confidence you are able to muster is simply a personal choice. I'll be checking back in with them for my next cycle, by when there will also be a year or two of data. I'm not feeling the need to be a pioneer at these costs.

 

[Reefdiver]

Jeez... I’m almost tempted to go look over the body panels of our Model S or our Model 3 to see if they are perfectly aligned. But you know what? I’ve never looked for this on any car I’ve ever owned. I do care if the car rattles, squeaks, doesn’t run smoothly, controls don’t work, or most importantly is unreliable to drive. Both cars have had none of these problems. They drive great. I love them both. Sometimes I think people are too picky with Tesla. Nah on second thought I’m not going to go look at the body panels.

 

[Sportstick]

Jeez... I’m almost tempted to go look over the body panels of our Model S or our Model 3 to see if they are perfectly aligned. But you know what? I’ve never looked for this on any car I’ve ever owned. I do care if the car rattles, squeaks, doesn’t run smoothly, controls don’t work, or most importantly is unreliable to drive. Both cars have had none of these problems. They drive great. I love them both. Sometimes I think people are too picky with Tesla. Nah on second thought I’m not going to go look at the body panels.

I'm picking up some signals of humor/sarcasm, but have a question for you based on your priorities. Let's take this out of automotive. If you spend a couple of grand on a really good suit, which, of course, does the basics, covers the body parts, keeps you dressed, provides the generally formal image appropriate for those occasions.....how fussy are you about the fit? Do you have the cuffs precisely measured, jacket waist/pants seat taken in/tapered to fit, or as long as it generally hangs on you, are you ok with that? I'm wondering if folks have different sets of standards for different purchase categories, so the factor of personal importance of an automobile needs to be considered. Or, do fussy vs. laid-back personalities transcent categories? Right now, I am going out to the driveway to hand wash two cars with a foam gun, two bucket method, soft mitts, and microfiber towels, followed up by water-based sealant spray....I'll check back later! (there is no laughing emoji!?)

 

[Barklikeadog]

Jeez... I’m almost tempted to go look over the body panels of our Model S or our Model 3 to see if they are perfectly aligned. But you know what? I’ve never looked for this on any car I’ve ever owned. I do care if the car rattles, squeaks, doesn’t run smoothly, controls don’t work, or most importantly is unreliable to drive. Both cars have had none of these problems. They drive great. I love them both. Sometimes I think people are too picky with Tesla. Nah on second thought I’m not going to go look at the body panels.

Don't look! You'll always see it if you look.

 

[rsomrek]

I'm wondering if folks have different sets of standards for different purchase categories, so the factor of personal importance of an automobile needs to be considered. Or, do fussy vs. laid-back personalities transcent categories? Right now, I am going out to the driveway to hand wash two cars with a foam gun, two bucket method, soft mitts, and microfiber towels, followed up by water-based sealant spray....I'll check back later! (there is no laughing emoji!?)

This is a good point. I'd suggest that there may even be another category in addition to fussy vs. laid-back - expecting a level of quality, fit and finish based on the cost you pay. I might consider myself fussy but wouldn't complain much (if at all) if the $15 watch I bought at Walmart was not up to a simple, reasonable standard - it looked presentable and it kept good time. One the other hand, I would be more than upset if my new $7500 Rolex has a scratch on it, the crystal didn't sit right/perfectly, the band was broken - even if it kept good time. Is there a similar analogy to Sportstick's $2000 suit - and maybe to a $50,000+ car?

 

[daniel]

I'm picking up some signals of humor/sarcasm, but have a question for you based on your priorities. Let's take this out of automotive. If you spend a couple of grand on a really good suit, which, of course, does the basics, covers the body parts, keeps you dressed, provides the generally formal image appropriate for those occasions.....how fussy are you about the fit? Do you have the cuffs precisely measured, jacket waist/pants seat taken in/tapered to fit, or as long as it generally hangs on you, are you ok with that? I'm wondering if folks have different sets of standards for different purchase categories, so the factor of personal importance of an automobile needs to be considered. Or, do fussy vs. laid-back personalities transcent categories? Right now, I am going out to the driveway to hand wash two cars with a foam gun, two bucket method, soft mitts, and microfiber towels, followed up by water-based sealant spray....I'll check back later! (there is no laughing emoji!?)

Batteries are expensive. When I look at what I get for my money with Tesla, vs. what I'd get from, say, Lexus, with a Lexus the money goes for features generally considered luxurious. Like doors that close themselves, and I don't know what-all else because I've never owned such a car. With Tesla the money goes for batteries. If a cup of coffee costs a dollar and a doughnut costs a dollar you cannot get a coffee AND a doughnut for a dollar. If you want Lexus quality AND batteries, that will cost more.

For the analogy of the $2,000 suit (can you really spent that much on a suit??? ) to be valid, the suit can fit that much better than an off-the-rack suit OR it can have something else to justify the cost, like it's bulletproof or will keep you completely dry in a downpour. If it fits no better than a $50 suit and does nothing else to justify its cost, it's not an analogy to the Tesla car because the car has batteries, which the cheaper (but well-fitted) car does not.

Personally, I don't think ANY suit, no matter how well it fits or how soft and cozy the fabric is, would be worth $2,000. I do think the Model 3 as configured is worth what they're charging. (Though I still have not decided if I like it better than my Roadster, also a Tesla, and also jam-packed with batteries.)

 

[Reefdiver]

I don’t mean to offend anyone so I apologize if it came across that way. I have my own set of things that would bug me if they weren’t right in a new car, and as I said the M3 has none of those problems for me. It feels very solid and well-built. I just worry that a lot of potential owners are equating body panel alignment issues with a poorly built car, which I definitely feel it is not, and now are questioning whether to get the car. Also people who have never noticed body panels before in any previous car are now going to go over their new M3 with a microscope and then feel if anything is not perfectly aligned that they got a lousy car that’s going to fall apart any minute. I think there is a negative effect going on now because of some of these professional reviews and people may lose perspective on what I feel overall is a solid well-built car, forget the fact is a high-tech non-ICE car.

 

[NoTDI]

The old saying of you get what you pay for is true for all products. In the premium sector which Tesla competes in expectations are for a “flawless” product which we all know does not exist. There are compromises all the time. For me the following are the qualities that I’m banking on to rationalize purchasing a $60k M3:
Design
Performance
Existing owners who are very happy
Least damaging to our environment
Made in US
Made in California
Autopilot
A company who stands behind their product
Perfect size for my needs
Carpool lane access in California
Supporting a revolution to end use of fossil fuels
Supporting a pioneering company
Political independence from oil producing countries

Yes the Germans will fight back and will produce great products but they won’t meet a few of the above requirements for me. Mainly, they failed to be the pioneers even with their unlimited resources compared to Tesla.

 

[rsomrek]

The old saying of you get what you pay for is true for all products. In the premium sector which Tesla competes in expectations are for a “flawless” product which we all know does not exist. There are compromises all the time. For me the following are the qualities that I’m banking on to rationalize purchasing a $60k M3: ...
.

I agree with most of your list elements although a few (e.g., carpool lane access in California) won't be on my list. I'm a little surprised that fit-and-finish for a $60K car is not on the list. I suspect this is more my problem - even for a Second City guy used to high prices and what you get but still taken aback at times at CA pricing/expectations .

 

[goto10]

I don't need perfect fit and finish. I'd just prefer it not have glaring flaws. My impression is that the issue isn't so much that it's not up to BMW/Mercedes standards but that in some cases it appears to not even be up to the standards of a low-budget domestic car.

I personally don't think "for $60k, I should be getting..." because I recognize I'm buying a unique, trailblazing product from a visionary company and there are a lot of factors other than material and fitment quality that push the price up. Still there's a minimum level of quality I'd expect for a vehicle at any price point and that's the standard I'll have in mind when I go to pick mine up.

 

[Sportstick]

I don’t mean to offend anyone so I apologize if it came across that way. I have my own set of things that would bug me if they weren’t right in a new car, and as I said the M3 has none of those problems for me. It feels very solid and well-built. I just worry that a lot of potential owners are equating body panel alignment issues with a poorly built car, which I definitely feel it is not, and now are questioning whether to get the car. Also people who have never noticed body panels before in any previous car are now going to go over their new M3 with a microscope and then feel if anything is not perfectly aligned that they got a lousy car that’s going to fall apart any minute. I think there is a negative effect going on now because of some of these professional reviews and people may lose perspective on what I feel overall is a solid well-built car, forget the fact is a high-tech non-ICE car.

I'm back with two very clean and shiny cars now in the garage...and wow, did this provoke some more interesting answers meanwhile! First of all, no offense taken in any way (and I don't think by anyone) as your earlier post was just honest and witty, so please no need to apologize! These interim posts clearly show that this group has a diverse set of issues of importance and value. While one can't imagine a $2,000 suit, another cites a $7,500 watch...does it make the time go by more pleasurably? LOL! (Tried a Rolex once and never again due to irredeemable inaccuracy, apparently within their specs, but not mine.) With such difference in each one's personal value system, no wonder this thread has such lively banter, and without expectation, I assume, that anyone will change anyone else's point of view!

As for inciting more people to observe body fits, I can only speak for myself. After almost 30 years with one of the global OEMs, and lots of time in the plant, I developed the skill to first close my eyes and use my fingertip to run along seams to judge pre-production pilots, and then volume production on quality visits. When I take delivery of a new car, I ask for some quiet time and "shotgun" the car, standing past each corner, gazing the length of each side, up and down, and then inspecting front and rear for hood/trunk, and then all the body attachment hardware to ensure the original paint seal has not been disrupted. If all is OK, I accept that for delivery. I don't think there is an official diagnosis for this condition.

 

[daniel]

I don't see the Teslas as "luxury" cars. They are in the price range of "luxury" gas cars, because of the cost of batteries. For $60,000 you can have "luxury"-car features, or you can have batteries. If you want both, it will cost more. Some folks want an electric car to have the same features as a similarly-priced gas car, and as long as batteries cost what they do, this is just not possible.

Now, if the owners of stinkers had to pay the external costs of the extraction, refining, and burning of fossil fuels, then electric cars would be far less expensive over the life of the car. But as far as manufacture, that price tag goes to batteries, not to the features people expect in a "luxury" car.

 

[tomas]

I call BS on this. I’ve never had a car that didnt have foibles. Tesla no worse. Our Model 3 is immaculate. Out 2012 S has a couple of flaws, but fewer than the Jaguar it replaced, or the BMW the jaguar replaced.

 

[GTKAZ]

I call BS on this. I’ve never had a car that didnt have foibles. Tesla no worse. Our Model 3 is immaculate. Out 2012 S has a couple of flaws, but fewer than the Jaguar it replaced, or the BMW the jaguar replaced.

I absolutely agree!

 

[xav-]

Someone on the the Tesla Reddit has a posted a good pick up checklist for the M3: Tesla Model 3 Delivery Checklist

Thanks for sharing.. I will definitely bring that. I understand the car is still very new and there would be need to be something drastic for me to refuse delivery.. my main goal is to have any issue found written down.. and a follow up appointment booked.