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Green New Deal
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Xenoilphobe
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
juliusa
Active Member
For the sake of life on Earth, we must put a limit on wealth | George Monbiot
It is not quite true that behind every great fortune lies a great crime. Musicians and novelists, for example, can become extremely rich by giving other people pleasure. But it does appear to be universally true that in front of every great fortune lies a great crime. Immense wealth translates automatically into immense environmental impacts, regardless of the intentions of those who possess it. The very wealthy, almost as a matter of definition, are committing ecocide.
A series of research papers shows that income is by far the most important determinant of environmental impact. It doesn’t matter how green you think you are; if you have surplus money, you spend it. The only form of consumption that’s clearly and positively correlated with good environmental intentions is diet: people who see themselves as green tend to eat less meat and more organic vegetables. But attitudes have little bearing on the amount of transport fuel, home energy and other materials you consume. Money conquers all.
There’s a name for this approach, coined by the Belgian philosopher Ingrid Robeyns: limitarianism. Robeyns argues that there should be an upper limit to the amount of income and wealth a person can amass. Just as we recognise a poverty line, below which no one should fall, we should recognise a riches line, above which no one should rise. This call for a levelling down is perhaps the most blasphemous idea in contemporary discourse.
But her arguments are sound. Surplus money allows some people to exercise inordinate power over others: in the workplace; in politics; and above all in the capture, use and destruction of the planet’s natural wealth. If everyone is to flourish, we cannot afford the rich. Nor can we afford our own aspirations, which the culture of wealth maximisation encourages.
It is not quite true that behind every great fortune lies a great crime. Musicians and novelists, for example, can become extremely rich by giving other people pleasure. But it does appear to be universally true that in front of every great fortune lies a great crime. Immense wealth translates automatically into immense environmental impacts, regardless of the intentions of those who possess it. The very wealthy, almost as a matter of definition, are committing ecocide.
A series of research papers shows that income is by far the most important determinant of environmental impact. It doesn’t matter how green you think you are; if you have surplus money, you spend it. The only form of consumption that’s clearly and positively correlated with good environmental intentions is diet: people who see themselves as green tend to eat less meat and more organic vegetables. But attitudes have little bearing on the amount of transport fuel, home energy and other materials you consume. Money conquers all.
There’s a name for this approach, coined by the Belgian philosopher Ingrid Robeyns: limitarianism. Robeyns argues that there should be an upper limit to the amount of income and wealth a person can amass. Just as we recognise a poverty line, below which no one should fall, we should recognise a riches line, above which no one should rise. This call for a levelling down is perhaps the most blasphemous idea in contemporary discourse.
But her arguments are sound. Surplus money allows some people to exercise inordinate power over others: in the workplace; in politics; and above all in the capture, use and destruction of the planet’s natural wealth. If everyone is to flourish, we cannot afford the rich. Nor can we afford our own aspirations, which the culture of wealth maximisation encourages.
The only problem with this is that new technology requires vision, investment, and first adopters. So if Musk couldn't fund Tesla, and early adopters couldn't purchase the more expensive Roadster, there would be no BEVs, no SpaceX, no solar roofs. It's true though that the majority of wealthy spend far to much on manipulation and short term profits at the expense of the environment and society. I don't know how to reward the innovators and visionaries and at the same time restrict the fascists and the greedy.
When I've started businesses, I've found that money is not the problem. You can usually find enough money to bootstrap an idea.
Large industrial enterprises like Tesla are a bit different. However, rich people are a poor source of funding. Banks and investment companies (pooling the resources of a lot of small investors) are much better.
We don't need the rich.
I agree for the most part we don't need rich. However, I just can't see any bank or investment company funding either Tesla or SpaceX when they started. Both tend to favour something with a proven track record.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Elon put all of his wealth into Tesla because no other funding was available to save the company.
Elon is a unicorn. Most of the wealthy just park their money in "safe" investments. Elon put it all on red because he had a mission to save the world; almost lost it all but now looks to be a success (now able to attract lots of that "safe" investment money).
We also need to remember that Elon didn't start Tesla. It was started with a relatively small amount of funding. Elon came in at a crucial time to provide direction and vital funding to scale up the company. However, that role could have been fulfilled by a venture capital firm (pooling resources from lots of less wealthy people).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
juliusa
Active Member
He got rich people to buy his expensive S and X to fund the 3. The 3, Y, pickup, and Semi are going to save the world - not the S or X.
Brilliant.
SDRick
Active Member
Screw the rich!
I mean the really rich!
No, I mean the really really really rich!
Actually, I mean really really really super uber rich!
Ya, now I got it, that's it!
Coalition of farmers and ranchers endorses Green New Deal
A national coalition representing thousands of farmers and ranchers endorsed the Green New Deal on Wednesday, with Democratic lawmakers from agricultural states praising their support.
Regeneration International, one of the organizers of the ranchers and farmers coalition, argued that overhauling the agricultural sector could help sequester carbon emissions in the soil, reversing the industry's contribution to greenhouse gas emissions
A national coalition representing thousands of farmers and ranchers endorsed the Green New Deal on Wednesday, with Democratic lawmakers from agricultural states praising their support.
Regeneration International, one of the organizers of the ranchers and farmers coalition, argued that overhauling the agricultural sector could help sequester carbon emissions in the soil, reversing the industry's contribution to greenhouse gas emissions
If you'll read TFA, you'll see that this is not about screwing the rich but rather about preventing the rich from screwing us,
SDRick
Active Member
Reminds me of a story of two young boys growing up in Italy.
The first boy sees a fancy red Ferrari drive-by and points it out to his father. His father responds "there goes a thief, he is a thief I tell you"!
The other boy sees the fancy red Ferrari drive-by and his father's response was more in the line of "if you work hard and save your money there is a chance that you also could have one of those too".
What type of father (upbringing) did you have?
juliusa
Active Member
You had me at "Screw the rich!". Everyone agrees with that, and "the rich" is anyone that has more money than I do.
Getting rich was not a priority. It was more about taking care of family and community.
SDRick
Active Member
Me too!
I did not grow up in a wealthy family, so I do not know for sure, but I doubt most affluent folks prioritize "getting rich" as a goal. To me, that would be the wrong focus putting too much pressure on a hollow metric that's difficult to achieve.
Hopefully most parents endeavor to instill the positive traits like honesty, respect of others, self-sufficiency, thrift, charity, working towards goals, success, golden rule, try your best etc., and not encourage jealousy, envy and a sense of entitlement.
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