Green New Deal

[mspohr]

My proposal if there really is a Climate Change Crisis.

1. Get everyone to believe it. GND is mostly a prescription for disagreement as seen here. Can there be any agreement to solve the Climate Crisis?
2. Move to Renewables because it is simply better.
3. California has a bill (I have heard) that in 2020 ALL New Homes must have Solar that will cover their usage. I believe this should be nation wide. And they should allow each home to go higher than 100% of usage. If each New home could go 200% then that would be better. Current restrictions say you are not allowed to go over 100% even though most do. Why not encourage it?
4. Encourage ALL home owners to install Solar at 200% of their usage requirement to help with the Climate Crisis.
5. Encourage apartments to install as much Solar as possible and provide financial benefits.
6. Heavily promote EV Adoption that can be charged from Solar in your home.
7. Encourage Business to follow the lead of Google, Microsoft and Apple to install Renewable to run their business. Amazon, just order 100,000 EV Vans. This should be a no brainer. I mean this is a Climate Crisis, right? Business want to make a profit and they want customers to like them and buy their products. We should support businesses that do this.

Everything above would help the economy and not cost the government that much. However, utility companies would make less if they did not adopt changes.

Some say this did not work in the past so radical changes are necessary now. Like a complete social overhaul. I disagree. Solar in particular has come down in cost a lot in the past 20 years. Likewise the cost of Battery's for EV's and Storage is much cheaper. And EV availability over the next fews years it expected to climb making it more affordable. With all of that you would think that with proper promotion and maybe continued subsidies the economy (public) would embrace it. No need for the government to should "ban" anything. Once the demand is reduced the "for profit" business will make adjustments.

All good action steps.
Only problem is #1:

1. Get everyone to believe it. GND is mostly a prescription for disagreement as seen here. Can there be any agreement to solve the Climate Crisis?

I spite of overwhelming evidence there remain a few loud dissenters (and, of course, the rich who don't want to accept the reality). Probably includes you since you state "if" there is a climate crisis.
We need government to say, "yes, there is a climate crisis and this is how we are going to address it."
(Ducks and open borders are an irrelevant digression. Please stop slinging mud.)

 

[nwdiver]

My proposal if there really is a Climate Change Crisis.

1. Get everyone to believe it. GND is mostly a prescription for disagreement as seen here. Can there be any agreement to solve the Climate Crisis?
2. Move to Renewables because it is simply better.
3. California has a bill (I have heard) that in 2020 ALL New Homes must have Solar that will cover their usage. I believe this should be nation wide. And they should allow each home to go higher than 100% of usage. If each New home could go 200% then that would be better. Current restrictions say you are not allowed to go over 100% even though most do. Why not encourage it?
4. Encourage ALL home owners to install Solar at 200% of their usage requirement to help with the Climate Crisis.
5. Encourage apartments to install as much Solar as possible and provide financial benefits.
6. Heavily promote EV Adoption that can be charged from Solar in your home.
7. Encourage Business to follow the lead of Google, Microsoft and Apple to install Renewable to run their business. Amazon, just order 100,000 EV Vans. This should be a no brainer. I mean this is a Climate Crisis, right? Business want to make a profit and they want customers to like them and buy their products. We should support businesses that do this.

Everything above would help the economy and not cost the government that much. However, utility companies would make less if they did not adopt changes.

Some say this did not work in the past so radical changes are necessary now. Like a complete social overhaul. I disagree. Solar in particular has come down in cost a lot in the past 20 years. Likewise the cost of Battery's for EV's and Storage is much cheaper. And EV availability over the next fews years it expected to climb making it more affordable. With all of that you would think that with proper promotion and maybe continued subsidies the economy (public) would embrace it. No need for the government to should "ban" anything. Once the demand is reduced the "for profit" business will make adjustments.

What do we do with coal-dependent communities?

 

[d21mike]

Could you please explain how this relates to the GND?
Who is the duck?
How are they swimming?
What does the quacking mean?

It was related to above when I stated that the GND is more about social justice or whatever you want to call it instead of Climate Change.

Maybe I should say "economic inequality". With Climate Change being promoted as a global crisis why muddy the water and just deal with Climate Change.

Green New Deal
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Green New Deal (GND) is a proposed United States legislation that aims to address climate change and economic inequality

 

[d21mike]

All good action steps.
Only problem is #1:


I spite of overwhelming evidence there remain a few loud dissenters (and, of course, the rich who don't want to accept the reality). Probably includes you since you state "if" there is a climate crisis.
We need government to say, "yes, there is a climate crisis and this is how we are going to address it."
(Ducks and open borders are an irrelevant digression. Please stop slinging mud.)

The "if" is for others not me. My point is that "if' YOU and others like you feel that we have a Global Climate Change Crisis why "muddy" the water with "economic inequality" which is a huge stumbling block for pretty much everyone that is against the GND. Including me.

 

[d21mike]

What do we do with coal-dependent communities?

First this transition will not happen overnight. We are talking about a transition that will take well over 10 years easily. Many times in our past we have moved from one industry to another. My concern is that the government will insert itself in an overbearing way. Example. The Democrats running for President 2020 were ask if they would do things like outlaw fracking and maybe outlaw exporting of FF products (or something like that). Let's say they democrats (the republicans would not do that) decided to outlaw coal. Well that would be a problem. I think they said outlaw like in their first term. There is no need to outlaw anything. We are not going to FORCE (i.e. go to war) any other country to change their ways. Right? If they are going to buy coal or oil from anyone else why would we outlaw them from buying from us? I believe there is a huge amount of money to be made with the transition to renewables. Business will naturally want part of that. That is simply the capitalist way.

 

[JRP3]

“wasn’t originally a climate thing at all ... we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing."

In other words, before they came up with the green new deal they were thinking about ways to improve the economy. Nothing wrong with improving the economy by greening the economy at the same time, in fact the two are tied together anyway, like it or not.

 

[nwdiver]

First this transition will not happen overnight. We are talking about a transition that will take well over 10 years easily. Many times in our past we have moved from one industry to another. My concern is that the government will insert itself in an overbearing way. Example. The Democrats running for President 2020 were ask if they would do things like outlaw fracking and maybe outlaw exporting of FF products (or something like that). Let's say they democrats (the republicans would not do that) decided to outlaw coal. Well that would be a problem. I think they said outlaw like in their first term. There is no need to outlaw anything. We are not going to FORCE (i.e. go to war) any other country to change their ways. Right? If they are going to buy coal or oil from anyone else why would we outlaw them from buying from us? I believe there is a huge amount of money to be made with the transition to renewables. Business will naturally want part of that. That is simply the capitalist way.

There is already tremendous suffering in coal-dependent communities. Should we do anything? Why would anyone in those communities support a transition that's going to make their terrible lives even worse? That's the point of the GND. No one gets 'left behind' in the transition.

 

[d21mike]

In other words, before they came up with the green new deal they were thinking about ways to improve the economy. Nothing wrong with improving the economy by greening the economy at the same time, in fact the two are tied together anyway, like it or not.

This is the critical issue. Those that may agree we have a Climate Change Crisis do not agree we have to tie the solution as you are saying is required. I am suggesting that the GND Advocates need to disconnect the two so progress on the Climate Change Crisis can be made. Of course how can the left get their radical social agenda thru if they do not tie it to the Climate Change Crisis.

 

[Chopr147]

It's really very simple. Kill all the cows to reduce animal farting, don't eat meat and temperatures will remain stable

 

[nwdiver]

It's really very simple. Kill all the cows to reduce animal farting, don't eat meat and temperatures will remain stable

It's impossible to tell satire from ignorance since we elected a racist internet thread as POTUS but either way that's wrong...

 

[d21mike]

There is already tremendous suffering in coal-dependent communities. Should we do anything? Why would anyone in those communities support a transition that's going to make their terrible lives even worse? That's the point of the GND. No one gets 'left behind' in the transition.

I would ask the question another way. If there was no Climate Change Crisis should we do anything to help the coal-dependent communities that you say have tremendous suffering now? There is no reason to tie the two together. As far back as I can remember people have been saying why are we provide so much aid to foreign countries while ignoring the suffering here at home.

So address Climate Change we need to "FOCUS" on solving that problem and not require we overhaul our social economy at the same time. The social economy will work itself out but sounds like the Planet will not. Unless you believe those that feel this whole thing is a scam to address social justice?

 

[d21mike]

It's impossible to tell satire from ignorance since we elected a racist internet thread as POTUS but either way that's wrong...

Yeah that's helpful. Let's just call everyone a Racist that do not agree with you starting with Trump.

 

[Chopr147]

It's impossible to tell satire from ignorance since we elected a racist internet thread as POTUS but either way that's wrong...

Ban straws, ban light bulbs, ban airplanes! But you are correct sir, Global Warming is Trump's fault

 

[nwdiver]

Yeah that's helpful. Let's just call everyone a Racist that do not agree with you starting with Trump.

He makes blatantly racist comments. If he doesn't want to be identified as a racist perhaps he shouldn't do that......

Ban straws, ban light bulbs, ban airplanes! But you are correct sir, Global Warming is Trump's fault

Nope... get our energy from solar or wind and we're >80% of the way there. Not Trumps fault exclusively but he's obviously making it worse. With idiotic comments like blaming wind turbines for cancer and LED lights somehow for his bad spray tan.....

And no one wants to ban light bulbs. We DO need to ban the use of tiny heaters for illumination... that's just moronic.

 

[mspohr]

It was related to above when I stated that the GND is more about social justice or whatever you want to call it instead of Climate Change.

Maybe I should say "economic inequality". With Climate Change being promoted as a global crisis why muddy the water and just deal with Climate Change.

Green New Deal
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Green New Deal (GND) is a proposed United States legislation that aims to address climate change and economic inequality

Because you cannot address climate change without addressing economic inequality.

 

[mspohr]

It's really very simple. Kill all the cows to reduce animal farting, don't eat meat and temperatures will remain stable

That's a good start but it's not "the solution". It's part of the solution.
(You are aware that they kill thousands of cows every day to supply meat markets.)

 

[d21mike]

Because you cannot address climate change without addressing economic inequality.

In that case I hope Climate Change is not really a crisis because that will not happen anytime soon.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Word of the Day

 

[nwdiver]

Word of the Day

So teenagers don't have a right to free speech?

 

[nwdiver]

In that case I hope Climate Change is not really a crisis because that will not happen anytime soon.

Why not? UBI coupled with a carbon tariff. Tell everyone Mexico will pay for everything. First part get the support from rational people. Second part from everyone else...