Growth of the Electrify America system- over 2000.

[Billyk24]

Yes, 100 per month for 20 months is the average. All CCS chargers are 150kW to 350 kW. AT 500 sites. read this: Electrify America Talks Charging Network Problems, Has Solutions

 

[benh57]

This was a good watch:

-- the network looks great!

He didnt cover cost, though -- i think it's a bit pricey compared to supercharging.

 

[thatgeekinit]

Yes, a bit pricey. The new ones near me in CO:

$1 plus $0.89/min at 125kW or more, $0.58/min between 125kW and 75kW, $0.21/min at 75kW or less. Pass+ pricing: $0.60/min at 125kW or more, $0.42/min between 125kW and 75kW, $0.15/min at 75kW or less. 40 cents per minute additional if car not moved ten minutes after session ends.​

The biggest barrier is that I don't see a point in buying a $450 Chademo adapter if it is only good for 50kW. Hopefully there will be a CCS/SAE adapter (or a retrofit option) that can do full level 3 super charging or close enough.

 

[dethman]

fastest i could get was 34kW on a chademo, which given their 25 cents/min rate in CA, NV, and UT makes it about 44 cents/kwh plus a $1.00 connection fee. kind of pricey. and slow.

i still welcome the options though.

 

[SageBrush]

Yes, a bit pricey. The new ones near me in CO:

$1 plus $0.89/min at 125kW or more, $0.58/min between 125kW and 75kW, $0.21/min at 75kW or less. Pass+ pricing: $0.60/min at 125kW or more, $0.42/min between 125kW and 75kW, $0.15/min at 75kW or less. 40 cents per minute additional if car not moved ten minutes after session ends.​

The cost is more than first apparent because you continue to pay the highest tariff through the entire charging session even though your actual charge speed is dropping as the battery fills. In my Model 3 at a Supercharger, I average somewhere in the range of 1.5 - 2.0 kWh/min on good days and when I am able to charge mostly in the lower 1/2 of my battery capacity. It would work out to $1, and another 45 -- 60 cents per kWh at an EA location.

 

[JPoldo]

The cost is more than first apparent because you continue to pay the highest tariff through the entire charging session even though your actual charge speed is dropping as the battery fills. In my Model 3 at a Supercharger, I average somewhere in the range of 1.5 - 2.0 kWh/min on good days and when I am able to charge mostly in the lower 1/2 of my battery capacity. It would work out to $1, and another 45 -- 60 cents per kWh at an EA location.

If useage was high, EA could make significant profit at these astronomical rates. Maybe profit margins will attract competitors a few years out. Sounds like a great franchise opportunity - i.e., buy electricity for $0.11/kwh and sell it for $0.60/kwh. Of course, the devil is in the details, but it could be lucrative. BurgerKing locates across the street from a busy MacDonalds so the same could apply at a busy EA site. Count me in as an investor.

 

[Billyk24]

If useage was high, EA could make significant profit at these astronomical rates. Maybe profit margins will attract competitors a few years out. Sounds like a great franchise opportunity - i.e., buy electricity for $0.11/kwh and sell it for $0.60/kwh. Of course, the devil is in the details, but it could be lucrative. BurgerKing locates across the street from a busy MacDonalds so the same could apply at a busy EA site. Count me in as an investor.

Up front costs for equipment and installation are high and then does one have to pay for the "land" the equipment sits on? If the company is a multi-million dollar one (which it probably needs to be to run the system) do the elected officials rail against these "money people" and impose another tax on it which is going to be passed onto the consumer?

 

[SageBrush]

Up front costs for equipment and installation are high and then does one have to pay for the "land" the equipment sits on? If the company is a multi-million dollar one (which it probably needs to be to run the system) do the elected officials rail against these "money people" and impose another tax on it which is going to be passed onto the consumer?

You don't need taxes. Demand charges suffice to make these DC fast chargers a money losing proposition. And so they will remain until battery storage gets a lot cheaper.

So I surmise, anyway

 

[nwdiver]

If useage was high, EA could make significant profit at these astronomical rates. Maybe profit margins will attract competitors a few years out. Sounds like a great franchise opportunity - i.e., buy electricity for $0.11/kwh and sell it for $0.60/kwh. Of course, the devil is in the details, but it could be lucrative. BurgerKing locates across the street from a busy MacDonalds so the same could apply at a busy EA site. Count me in as an investor.

You'd be the first; EV charging has been around for nearly 10 years now and literally no one has been able to make a business model based on selling electrons to cars work. I liked Chargepoint CEOs comparison. Gas Stations don't make money selling gas... they make money selling $3 monster drinks. Selling electrons would be taking a terrible business model and making it worse. I predict tears in EAs future unless that find other sources of revenue other than kWhs.

 

[Eno Deb]

You'd be the first; EV charging has been around for nearly 10 years now and literally no one has been able to make a business model based on selling electrons to cars work. I liked Chargepoint CEOs comparison. Gas Stations don't make money selling gas... they make money selling $3 monster drinks. Selling electrons would be taking a terrible business model and making it worse. I predict tears in EAs future unless that find other sources of revenue other than kWhs.

I don't see why the "convenience store model" shouldn't also work for EV chargers in the long run. I imagine that stores and restaurants near popular supercharger stations already benefit today, and the same will happen with EA once the number of EVs that can use them reaches critical mass. Perhaps the charger providers can develop a franchise model similar to Chargepoint, or figure out another way to get paid by nearby businesses.

Also, in the next few years, EA will have an additional revenue stream from car makers such as Ford or Audi, who give their EV buyers discounted or free charging (and pay EA for it). This is essentially the Tesla supercharger "business model" (i.e. charging is subsidized by the car maker to sell more cars).

 

[nwdiver]

I don't see why the "convenience store model" shouldn't also work for EV chargers in the long run. I imagine that stores and restaurants near popular supercharger stations already benefit today, and the same will happen with EA once the number of EVs that can use them reaches critical mass. Perhaps the charger providers can develop a franchise model similar to Chargepoint, or figure out another way to get paid by nearby businesses.

Also, in the next few years, EA will have an additional revenue stream from car makers such as Ford or Audi, who give their EV buyers discounted or free charging (and pay EA for it). This is essentially the Tesla supercharger "business model" (i.e. charging is subsidized by the car maker to sell more cars).

Yeah... some of that might work...

I predict tears in EAs future unless that find other sources of revenue other than kWhs.

Right now that's not how EA is structured. As far as I know they get most of their revenue from selling kWh and a little from the OEMs.

 

[mociaf9]

I don't see why the "convenience store model" shouldn't also work for EV chargers in the long run.

Because that model is predicated on quick turnover (i.e. under 5 minutes pumping) and therefore high volume through the C-store. That's just not something that EVs are going to match at any point in the near to medium future. This is a purely technical barrier for EVs. Maybe if there is an eventual transition away from straight battery EVs and towards something like supercapacitors or a hybrid battery-supercapacitor system. The way to make a convenience store model work for EVs is to turn the charging itself into a profit center, i.e. make it very, very expensive compared to normal home/L2 charging. That way, the lower turnover and therefore lower store volume is mitigated against. But for a large number of reasons that has not been a palatable choice.

 

[Eno Deb]

Because that model is predicated on quick turnover (i.e. under 5 minutes pumping) and therefore high volume through the C-store.

You are taking the term too literal. What I meant is that chargers could be subsidized by nearby businesses that stand to profit from increased foot traffic or longer customer retention. That's not just convenience stores, but also restaurants, coffee shops, shopping centers etc. where customers typically spend more than a few minutes.

 

[SigNC]

hope they start adding tesla connectors like evgo is slow rolling

 

[Eno Deb]

hope they start adding tesla connectors like evgo is slow rolling

The EVGo "Tesla connector" is really just a repackaged Tesla<>Chademo adapter that's bolted to the charger, and hence limited to 50kW. That can be useful in urban locations, but is very slow for highway locations used for road trips. A Tesla CCS adapter with a higher power rating would be more useful.

 

[SigNC]

The EVGo "Tesla connector" is really just a repackaged Tesla<>Chademo adapter that's bolted to the charger, and hence limited to 50kW. That can be useful in urban locations, but is very slow for highway locations used for road trips. A Tesla CCS adapter with a higher power rating would be more useful.

no doubt about a CCS adapter would be better but just looking for options as some of the EA locations are popping up near places that are easy to eat on a road trip so time might not be as big a factor.

 

[eevee-fan]

Exclusive: Electrify America Will Transition To Pay By kWh Pricing, And More

Charge by KWh, now just need to add Tesla adapters to provide maximum flexibility for Tesla drivers.

 

[nwdiver]

I can't see the EA sites in plugshare.... are they not displayed or do I have a filter setting wrong?

 

[eevee-fan]

Must be filtering. Here's a screen crop of fast chargers around Barstow.

 

[Billyk24]

I can't see the EA sites in plugshare.... are they not displayed or do I have a filter setting wrong?

This is where EA sites can be found: Locate a public EV charger | Electrify America