Guess A Tesla isn't in the cards for me, this time around

[ElectricTundra]

Agreed. Mine was a Birthday present from my wife.

I think we both married well.

 

[bonaire]

It's painful to read the OP post where they are saying they have BMWs and are going to buy yet another BMW. I'd buy a VW Rabbit before buying a BMW anything.

 

[roblab]

We have a 16 year old 5 series BMW station wagon. 540iT that is nearing replacement time. As an EE the S is very intriguing to me and would be a perfect functional replacement for the wagon, our larger car (I do not like/want an SUV). I have been lurking on the boards for a year educating myself as to pros/cons. But with a car that costs more than our first house, and 2X more than I ever spent on a car before, it's a hard sell to the Significant Other. Probably the largest obstacle is while I am am willing to have an early adopter experience, the SO, not so much. For whatever would occur, and we know there will be plenty, I would be frequently be reminded of the cost. Be it a fit/finish issue, 12V battery issue, high cost of body repairs (if something should happen), having to travel a little further or spend a little extra time to use a supercharger, etc.

I looked at other BEVs, but with our common trips to visit family being 100, 200 or 320 miles in a day, NO other BEV today is viable. So looks like this time around the BMW will be replace with another ICE BMW (3 Series GT is high on the list). I am hoping for when when we look to replace our smaller car in a few years (currently a BMW 335D) the Tesla model 3 will be ready. More affordable, more mainstream. So Tesla, don't slip the release date of the 3, I do not have that many more driving years left to buy one!

I'd ask for a redeal!

BMW is not all that much of a much, compared to all the other gas cars out there.

And a Tesla is not like anything else in the world.

My first house was about $10,000. Comparing the cost of a Tesla to a first house is a house of cards, too.

BMW has everybody snowed due to advertising. Ancient business model. Outdated style, perhaps. People just think that's what the important people own. They don't.

Especially poignant is the "not many more years" comment. I learned a couple months back that I have lymphoma, and I truly don't have that many more years left to drive. How thankful I am that I own a Model S! I plan on making use of the Supercharger Circuit, and Road Tripping to everywhere I can, chaufering my sweet wifey while I can enjoy it. Oh, please, don't put it off!!! And once my wife found out what a rush it is to drive pure, controlled power, it's precious little that I get to do the driving any more!

 

[Kbsilver]

BMW is not all that much of a much, compared to all the other gas cars out there.
BMW has everybody snowed due to advertising. Ancient business model. Outdated style, perhaps. People just think that's what the important people own. They don't.

I'll agree BMW as lost sight of being the ultimate driving machine and it as shifted to the masses. But they certainly aren't bad cars. I've belonged to the BMWCCA for 15 years and while I do not participate in the performance driving events I've had many years of enjoyable social experiences as well has the opportunity to volunteer at such things as their annual Oktoberfest and Tire Rack Street Survival (for teens) training. I was looking forward for a similar but new experience with Tesla.

Especially poignant is the "not many more years" comment. I learned a couple months back that I have lymphoma, and I truly don't have that many more years left to drive.

Sorry to hear. I do hope you can manage it for a long time. As a cancer survivor myself (Thyroid), I completely understand. For me the removal and radiation treatments were 15 years ago. While, I'm essentially fine, I do have to deal with the aftermath in some way just about everyday, the source of the comment about not many more years.

And a Tesla is not like anything else in the world.

Couldn't agree more!! I was experimenting with variable speed AC drives in college over 40 years ago. Now they are common place. I also worked on a team (for fun) on an electric car back then too. Essentially a crude version of the Volt with a range extender engine/alternator. Picture this, a AMC Gremlin (hey it was donated) filled with 20 golf cart batteries. The DC electric motor (direct drive to the rear axle) was sitting between the front seats. But it still had a V6 up front with an BIG alternator to charge the batteries. Went pretty fast and had about a 30 mile range without charging. Most interesting event is when one drivers got the order of things wrong turning on the Hydrogen exhausting fan AFTER he had been driving for a while. Let's just say his ears were ringing for a pretty long time.

 

[donv]

I think you could probably find an S 85 in the 60s, if you look carefully. If not now, you will soon, as a lot of them are coming onto the market as the D models become available.

Why don't you consider getting a low-optioned new 60? After the tax credit, you could order one with supercharging and tech package (including autopilot) for under $70k. If you looked, you might well be able to get an inventory 60 with a few (very few) miles on it for even less, or with more features.

For MartinAustin, nearly $70K for a car with 40K miles is still a lot of $$. Considering after the $7500 rebate the one I would option would end up costing about $86K, wouldn't you spend that extra $18K for one with 0 miles, new features, new battery and new tires?

While I never considered AWD important (don't have it now) the past 2 winters in NJ has me thinking!!

 

[deckofficer]

Yes I do!! But only on one car, the other stays in the garage during bad weather. There were many winters I did not even have to put them on. But not lately....

Responding to update: I have a very young grandchild, and I know a baby seat would work nicely in the back of the S. In regards to the save the earth arguments, I'm all for it! But (putting up force field now) I work for a major oil company :scared:

No need for the force field. I'm a former oil exploration worker and that experience is what drove my interest in EVs 15 years ago.

 

[AustinPowers]

Sounds like you have an opportunity to talk about how the Model S is the safest car on the road.

Did you see the EuroNCAP crash results of the Model S?
No contesting that it is a very safe car, but not any safer than most other models tested lately - plus in some aspects it fared quite a bit worse than other cars, even from far cheaper market segments. Just a few examples of current models with (sometimes far) higher scores than Model S:
Ford Mondeo, Mercedes C-Class, Mercedes GLA, VW Passat, Kia Sorento, Jeep Renegade, Skoda Fabia...

- - - Updated - - -

It's painful to read the OP post where they are saying they have BMWs and are going to buy yet another BMW. I'd buy a VW Rabbit before buying a BMW anything.

Sorry to hear you had problems with them. I have had mine for 11 years now, and I can't say anything bad about it. Very economical, great performance, practical even though it's a coupe, service costs minimal.
Actually, if it hadn't lived up to my expectations so well, I would be driving an e-Golf by now (Model S is too large and expensive for our needs, Model 3 is on the list). But as it is, I am currently having a hard time justifying getting rid of and replacing it.
Oh and as for people driving a BMW for status: sure, many do, I am not one of them. I drive it because of the advantages mentioned above, plus I just love how it looks. Though I agree I don't fancy the current BMW style very much any more.

 

[bonaire]

Austin, my primary problems with BMW have been price / both new-car costs and also repair costs. The service bay is where they make their profits and it can be expensive to own long-term. If you lease and get new warranties for each new one, then it is less of an issue. I have friends who run M3s on the race track for fun. They rebuild their own engines and do self-service. But that is their hobby and not a consumer situation.

Austin - also I see that yuo are posting from Frankfurt. You may have bias in terms of BMW and German brands. Honestly, we both like our own home-country brands to some degree. It keeps our citizens busy working and designing new products. But over here in the USA, the dealerships seriously overcharge for BMW car service actions. That is not the fault of BMW or the manufacturer - rather something to do with USA dealership antics.

 

[iadbound]

Did you see the EuroNCAP crash results of the Model S?
No contesting that it is a very safe car, but not any safer than most other models tested lately - plus in some aspects it fared quite a bit worse than other cars, even from far cheaper market segments. Just a few examples of current models with (sometimes far) higher scores than Model S:
Ford Mondeo, Mercedes C-Class, Mercedes GLA, VW Passat, Kia Sorento, Jeep Renegade, Skoda Fabia...

No. I missed those results. Still hung up on the US testing I guess. However, I just looked and I see what you mean. On the other hand, it still got 5 stars -- which is a relief!

 

[mknox]

My first house was about $10,000. Comparing the cost of a Tesla to a first house is a house of cards, too.

Indeed. I think a better comparison is how much the vehicle costs as a percentage of your income. This will take into account inflation over the years and your changing financial circumstances. The first car I bought (1 year old Honda Accord at at dealer in 1980) cost me $6,000 and that was a real stretch.

 

[AustinPowers]

@iadbound: Definitely. It is a really safe car, no denying that. And coming from a small company like Tesla, plus being their first own offering, its great results are even more impressive.

 

[Duckjybe]

No. I missed those results. Still hung up on the US testing I guess. However, I just looked and I see what you mean. On the other hand, it still got 5 stars -- which is a relief!

If you dig deeper into the EuroNCAP results you see that Tesla's percent scores should be higher than reported because of an airbag deployment issue that has apparently been rectified. Also, unlike Tesla, some cars have a feature called AEB (autonomous emergency braking) which gives them better scores but does not necessarily make the cars more crashworthy, it just helps them not crash as hard.

 

[AustinPowers]

My first house was about $10,000.

But that figure is not inflation-adjusted, right?
What kind of "house" can one get for less than 10K Dollar / 9K Euro? For that you don't even get a decent new car, let alone a house. Over here, just a small piece of land in a rural town costs up to 100K Euro - and then you still haven't built a house on that ground. And even if you buy a derelict house to demolish and rebuild, prices even in remote villages are in the tens of thousands of Euro.

- - - Updated - - -

If you dig deeper into the EuroNCAP results you see that Tesla's percent scores should be higher than reported because of an airbag deployment issue that has apparently been rectified. Also, unlike Tesla, some cars have a feature called AEB (avoidance emergency braking) which gives them better scores but does't necessarily make the cars more crashworthy, it just helps them not crash as hard.

Possibly, but these issues affect only some of the scores (Occupant / Child / Pestrian / Active safety features). The Merc GLA for example got 96 / 88 / 67 / 70 versus the Model S's 82 / 77 / 66 / 71. Interestingly Model S fared better in the last category, even though AEB is part of that category.

 

[Duckjybe]

Possibly, but these issues affect only some of the scores (Occupant / Child / Pestrian / Active safety features). The Merc GLA for example got 96 / 88 / 67 / 70 versus the Model S's 82 / 77 / 66 / 71. Interestingly Model S fared better in the last category, even though AEB is part of that category.

Just for clarity, there is an AEB component in the first category as well which will bump that category score when Tesla adds the AEB feature, which is pretty well certain since the sensors are on the car. Adding safety with software updates is truly worth paying the price of a Tesla!

 

[Beckler]

Oh and as for people driving a BMW for status: sure, many do, I am not one of them.

While I don't question your particular motivation, I would also say that almost nobody would admit (or realize) that image/status is a major reason they want a BMW/Mercedes, etc., and yet it must be the case, I suggest, for a large percentage.

My personal take, not that anyone cares, is that the high-end euro sedans are just not desirable because they're not mechanically reliable. They may be in your particular case but from general reading you learn the trend. I'd go Lexus/Acura if I had to. However now with the advent of Tesla, all of that stuff is swept away in an instant and seriously is now very boring to me.

 

[dsm363]

If you dig deeper into the EuroNCAP results you see that Tesla's percent scores should be higher than reported because of an airbag deployment issue that has apparently been rectified. Also, unlike Tesla, some cars have a feature called AEB (autonomous emergency braking) which gives them better scores but does not necessarily make the cars more crashworthy, it just helps them not crash as hard.

Did Telsa add that (or are going to) with the new camera hardware and software?

 

[jwg]

Good choice. Don't question your decision at all. Given your driving habits if this would be your primary vehicle, it isn't right for you.

It is easy for all the Tesla enthusiasts to praise the merits of a Tesla and proclaim it is the best car on the market, but it will not work for everybody. Reality is there are plenty of other great cars on the market - Audis, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, heck even the premium models from Hyundai - the list goes on... I am sometimes amazed when I rent a fairly inexpensive car when travelling (prefer to rent less expensive ones knowing that if somehow I ever destroyed it I would just write a cheque and walk away) how good they often are, and how many desirable features even fairly inexpensive cars now come with - much better than the buckets of bolts that many car manufacturers were selling 30 years ago. We are currently living in exciting times for car buffs at any level.

 

[Duckjybe]

Did Telsa add that (or are going to) with the new camera hardware and software?

I don't have a new car but I understand it does autonomous emergency braking while using TACC so they will surely be able to add it full time in the future.

 

[marcon]

Did you see the EuroNCAP crash results of the Model S?
No contesting that it is a very safe car, but not any safer than most other models tested lately - plus in some aspects it fared quite a bit worse than other cars, even from far cheaper market segments. Just a few examples of current models with (sometimes far) higher scores than Model S:
Ford Mondeo, Mercedes C-Class, Mercedes GLA, VW Passat, Kia Sorento, Jeep Renegade, Skoda Fabia...

According to Euro NCAP's website

Euro NCAP’s frontal impact test simulates a car crashing into another of similar mass and structure. In real life, when two cars collide the vehicle with the higher mass has an advantage over the lighter one. Generally speaking, vehicles with higher structures tend to fare better in accidents than those with lower structures. Therefore, ratings are comparable only between cars of similar mass and with broadly similar structures. Euro NCAP groups cars into the following structural categories: passenger car, MPV, off-roader, roadster and pickup. Within each of those categories, cars which are within 150kg of one another are considered comparable.

At least the front crash test of the 1200 kg Skoda Fabia with a car of similar weight is not comparable to a crash test of the 2100 kg Model S with a car of similar weight. If you were to crash a Skoda Fabia into a Model S, those 5 stars wouldn't help as much.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

According to Euro NCAP's website

uro NCAP’s frontal impact test simulates a car crashing into another of similar mass and structure. In real life, when two cars collide the vehicle with the higher mass has an advantage over the lighter one. Generally speaking, vehicles with higher structures tend to fare better in accidents than those with lower structures. Therefore, ratings are comparable only between cars of similar mass and with broadly similar structures. Euro NCAP groups cars into the following structural categories: passenger car, MPV, off-roader, roadster and pickup. Within each of those categories, cars which are within 150kg of one another are considered comparable.

At least the front crash test of the 1200 kg Skoda Fabia with a car of similar weight is not comparable to a crash test of the 2100 kg Model S with a car of similar weight. If you were to crash a Skoda Fabia into a Model S, those 5 stars wouldn't help as much. [My underline.]

Or if you were involved in a crash like this one where you first get rear-ended by a Cadillac Escalade which pushes your car into on-coming traffic where you then have frontal off-set crash with a Hummer.

One person was unfortunately killed in that white car which I think is a 2000 to 2006 Lexus LS 430…

- - - Updated - - -

.../ There are plenty of good reasons to not buy a Model S. It's too big, you can't afford it, it's your only car and there aren't Superchargers where you need to go, etc. And they are selling all they can make, so I am not trying to talk you in to something you don't want to do; it won't make a difference in the larger picture. /...

On the other hand: Every Model S order increases demand. With enough demand Tesla can scale up production of the Model S, which in turn can increase economies of scale, making the Model S a little more affordable, while at the same time giving Tesla more cash to "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible".

Source:

The Mission of Tesla

Elon Musk, Chairman, Product Architect & CEO November 18, 2013

Our goal when we created Tesla a decade ago was the same as it is today: to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. [My underline.] [...

The Mission of Tesla | Tesla Motors

- - - Updated - - -

@Kbsilver:

Even if your wife will complain – which I honestly see no reason for her to do – given the aforementioned ‘for the grand-child’-argument…

Does it really matter?

You will know that she is wrong. And that you are right.

And it doesn’t seem like you’ll be risking any kind of separation given your age…

So what can you really loose?