Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Guy Who Killed Fisker Offers Advice To Elon

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I don't believe Tesla will lose its advantages.

An industry's first mover that assumes the competition is stupid and will remain stupid forever is playing an extremely dangerous game.

IF the legacy auto companies remain stupid forever there are electronic firms like Samsung and Foxconn that have shown interest in BEV manufacturing.

Nissan-Renault are at least half wits. :wink:



So I think Tesla will have the time it needs to grow.


Absolutely, they have the time scale up but less time than you seem to imply.

The only question is whether Tesla can successfully sync its growth to the battery tech curve. And if they're going to err, they need to err on the side of growing too slowly. You'd rather be 6-12 months late with the Model 3 than have your company, sales force and service centers tooled up and ready to support Model 3 volumes but have the battery packs be too expensive to make the profit you need.

Battery technology and manufacturing does not work that way. They have a very good idea what they will be manufacturing 2 years from now and at what cost. They don't develop something in the lab and have it in a car 6 months later.It has to be thoroughly tested and vetted before reaching the consumer.
 
Tesla needs to be first with a compelling $20k EV.

Elon has said he would be disappointed if battery cost did not fall below $100/kWh within a decade.

That is the price at which BEV powertrains fall below the price of ICE powertrains.

That is when you can make a better $15k BEV than Toyota can make an ICE Yaris.

I was actually rather surprised recently to learn there were still at least six cars offered in North America that could be purchased new for under $15,000. Dodge and Honda have abandoned that market entirely.

JB Straubel has said the batteries in the Model S represent 25% of the purchase cost. Assuming that same relative percentage would apply to a $20,000 electric car, that means the battery pack would be $5,000. At $100 per kWh, that would be a 50 kWh battery pack. For a $15,000 electric car, that would make for a 37.5 kWh battery pack. I would love to see the return of the Honda CR-X form factor myself.

I believe that Tesla Motors will never release a car with less than a 200 mile range -- in the United States of America. There is the outside chance that in Europe, China, and India they might offer a 40 kWh-to-50 kWh lightweight, smaller vehicle for the relative price point of $20,000 or less. I would be surprised to see something of that sort to appear in short order though, it would likely be at least eight years away before low price volume sales became more important than performance and range in those markets. But I rather believe that instead of building a 'city car' or a 'commuter car' Tesla will prefer to make compact and mid-sized vehicles that have uncompromised range and performance, while leaving the micro-vehicles to other manufacturers, like BYD or TATA.

I expect that instead, Tesla Motors will shoot for using a 60 kWh battery pack in a small car for the North American market that costs ~$24,900 when they can make the sub-$100 per kWh mark.
 
An industry's first mover that assumes the competition is stupid and will remain stupid forever is playing an extremely dangerous game.

IF the legacy auto companies remain stupid forever there are electronic firms like Samsung and Foxconn that have shown interest in BEV manufacturing.

Nissan-Renault are at least half wits. :wink:


Absolutely, they have the time scale up but less time than you seem to imply.


Battery technology and manufacturing does not work that way. They have a very good idea what they will be manufacturing 2 years from now and at what cost. They don't develop something in the lab and have it in a car 6 months later.It has to be thoroughly tested and vetted before reaching the consumer.

I think it's going to be very difficult for a big auto company to develop a compelling EV until:

1) battery tech gets good enough and cheap enough that you can use current big-auto methodologies instead of Tesla methodologies and wind up with a good car. My guess is that's 3-5 years after Tesla brings out the Model 3. Tesla can use batteries that others can't and because of they design the drivetrain, power management system and battery pack/cell management as a vertically integrated system, not a modular system.
2) they decide to use the Supercharger network or its equivalent to gain long-trip capability.

Another company can try and do what Tesla is doing but they need to acquire or develop engineering expertise. If they can't hire enough people from Tesla, it will take them years to get it on their own.
 
rcc: Correct. What Tesla Motors will be able to accomplish at $100 per kWh, the traditional automobile manufacturers will struggle to match at $25 per kWh, ten years later. You can see that in the fact that no matter what they do, they must leave an 'out' for themselves by having a 'range extender' attached to just about anything that is remotely affordable, or build them on platforms that are 'shared' with a primary ICE configuration. The Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive appeared in 2013, five years after the Tesla Roadster, and basically just sported a 7 kWH larger battery pack, higher top speed, same 0-60, half the range, and cost four times as much. No one else is close to either the Mercedes-Benz or the Roadster, and that's on the high end. See the BMW i8 as evidence. Traditional automobile manufacturers are desperately afraid to even attempt to build a clean sheet vehicle from the ground up to be electric and nothing else.