Hack-charging on a generator

[bluetinc]

I'll toss in here that I didn't see any "protective shutdown" on the S when charging at Voltages up to 281V, though under load it dropped to low 270's. I only had it charge like this for a few minutes before I shut charging down for my own peace of mind.

Peter

Thanks for the video... It's probably not the > 250V -- the chargers are actually rated for up to 265V. It's likely either the crazy voltage fluctuations, but my guess is actually that the car doesn't like the frequency fluctuations. My home's UPS's don't like the cheap gensets and refuse to charge at all, and it's because the frequency variation is too wide based on these generators' governors.

I find it odd that voltage increases under load in your test, generally it drops, and especially when it comes to the cheaper components used on these generators.

What's also odd is that your car shows it is charging at 1-2 amps over the target.

 

[cinergi]

Thanks for the video... It's probably not the > 250V -- the chargers are actually rated for up to 265V. It's likely either the crazy voltage fluctuations, but my guess is actually that the car doesn't like the frequency fluctuations. My home's UPS's don't like the cheap gensets and refuse to charge at all, and it's because the frequency variation is too wide based on these generators' governors.

I find it odd that voltage increases under load in your test, generally it drops, and especially when it comes to the cheaper components used on these generators.

What's also odd is that your car shows it is charging at 1-2 amps over the target.

You wouldn't happen to know the type of load I could add to the generator that would have the best chance of stabilizing it against the impact the chargers are having? Resistive (heater)? I might try that at some point (probably not for a while now ... snow's already on the ground and the genny is on the other side of the house).

Wish I had an oscilloscope :smile:

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I'll toss in here that I didn't see any "protective shutdown" on the S when charging at Voltages up to 281V, though under load it dropped to low 270's. I only had it charge like this for a few minutes before I shut charging down for my own peace of mind.

Peter

Good to know, thanks! IIRC I saw a sticker on the chargers that said they're rated to 277.

 

[FlasherZ]

I'll toss in here that I didn't see any "protective shutdown" on the S when charging at Voltages up to 281V, though under load it dropped to low 270's. I only had it charge like this for a few minutes before I shut charging down for my own peace of mind.

Peter

I thought about this for a bit... at first, it was a bit surprising, but as I thought about it I recognized that it doesn't seem like a case you need to worry about. I assume there's a bit of tolerance room built into the chargers, and if you went too far overvoltage, you'd probably experience a failure in the charger's switching supply without much risk.

In fact, a few months ago as we were speculating about the Supercharger, I was wondering whether Tesla was using 480Y/277 to power the Superchargers. It may very well be capable of using 277V and they're just being conservative on the ratings...

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You wouldn't happen to know the type of load I could add to the generator that would have the best chance of stabilizing it against the impact the chargers are having? Resistive (heater)? I might try that at some point (probably not for a while now ... snow's already on the ground and the genny is on the other side of the house).

Add a resistive load of about 500W (I use a $15 500W halogen work light) and if the generator is built well-enough it should smooth things a bit.

Good to know, thanks! IIRC I saw a sticker on the chargers that said they're rated to 277.

That's what I thought might be the case. That would make the chargers in the Supercharger capable of using a 480Y/277 system.

 

[ElSupreme]

Good to know, thanks! IIRC I saw a sticker on the chargers that said they're rated to 277.

Hmm. I might try to rig up the 480 at work to charge my car. Wonder if the boss is up for experimenting.

 

[FlasherZ]

Hmm. I might try to rig up the 480 at work to charge my car. Wonder if the boss is up for experimenting.

I would suggest rigging up the 277 at work, not the 480 (I know what you mean).

But if you do, video please - I like to hear the loud "POP" of the wrong voltage applied.

 

[bluetinc]

Good to know, thanks! IIRC I saw a sticker on the chargers that said they're rated to 277.

That's great to know, and comforting!

 

[mitch672]

You know, the toughest thing to fix in electronics is when "the smoke escapes"' it's damn hard to get it back into those tiny integrated circuits - I would suggest calling Tesla Engineering before you try this and see what they have to say, if they have used 277V successfully, i'm sure they'll let you know - or you could be the first Model S owner to find out what a replacement charger costs.

 

[dsm363]

Would a natural gas powered generator to a 110V outlet be able to charge a Model S during power outages from severe storms?

 

[Hank42]

Would a natural gas powered generator to a 110V outlet be able to charge a Model S during power outages from severe storms?

Propane, Natural gas, Diesel, Regular Gas - doesn't matter what the source of the dino is powering the Ginny, as long as the ginny has the right output (that's what the whole thread is about), then you should be good - 110, however, will just barely combat the vamprie losses !

 

[dsm363]

Propane, Natural gas, Diesel, Regular Gas - doesn't matter what the source of the dino is powering the Ginny, as long as the ginny has the right output (that's what the whole thread is about), then you should be good - 110, however, will just barely combat the vamprie losses !

Thanks. I threw in natural gas to indicate that it was one of those large, home backup generators but should have been more specific.
Forgotten I had asked this up thread=)

 

[FlasherZ]

Thanks. I threw in natural gas to indicate that it was one of those large, home backup generators but should have been more specific.
Forgotten I had asked this up thread=)

It depends on how sensitive your electronics are. I have a 25 kW LP standby generator that I use for powering my home during outages. Most of my UPS's work fine with the occasional transfer to battery when A/C kicks on or similar, but I have an APC UPS that refuses to go back to line power if the generator is powering my home -- even the "low" sensitivity setting doesn't work. I haven't tried charging my car on generator.

 

[andrewket]

It depends on how sensitive your electronics are. I have a 25 kW LP standby generator that I use for powering my home during outages. Most of my UPS's work fine with the occasional transfer to battery when A/C kicks on or similar, but I have an APC UPS that refuses to go back to line power if the generator is powering my home -- even the "low" sensitivity setting doesn't work. I haven't tried charging my car on generator.

Interesting. My APC back-ups Pros work great on my Cumins Onsn 20kW generator but the one cyberups I have constantly switches. The APCs have a sensitivity setting but it works on the medium setting.

 

[Robecology]

Carrying a generator?

I'm going for a test drive this AM (Sat May 11, '13). I've searched these forums about carrying a generator...a small gas generator so one can continue on a road trip and generate one's own electricity. The obvious question is its' feasibility...is it practical? Does Tesla have plans to build in a generator as an option?

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[Raffy.Roma]

A TMC member gave me advice about these gas generators.

Honda EU20i and Honda EU2000i

 

[Johan]

I'm going for a test drive this AM (Sat May 11, '13). I've searched these forums about carrying a generator...a small gas generator so one can continue on a road trip and generate one's own electricity. The obvious question is its' feasibility...is it practical? Does Tesla have plans to build in a generator as an option?

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Read this thread, it will tell you what's worth to know. The short version: Not practical, feasible in theory. Tesla will not be doing this in a million years.

Hack-charging on a generator

 

[brianman]

A TMC member gave me advice about these gas generators.
Honda EU20i and Honda EU2000i

For curious TMC members (like me) that don't wanna look it up (unlike me):
Honda EU2000i - MSRP US $1149.95

The "EU20i" appears to be a variant for other markets.

 

[bonnie]

Just a suggestion from someone who worried about range before buying her Roadster ... and now can't believe it was ever a worry:

Don't jump in and spend money on a generator until you've lived with an EV for a few months.


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I would be completely stunned if you decided a generator was a necessary accessory. I worried about range all the time BEFORE I was driving an EV. Now that I've lived with the reality, range just isn't an issue.

My two cents on this topic.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Don't jump in and spend money on a generator until you've lived with an EV for a few months. ​

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Thank you for the advice Bonnie. I''ll consider your advice.

 

[michaelkerner]

Saw your post. I am installing a Generac natural gas whole house generator. Did you ever find out the answer to your question as to wether you can charge your car during a power outage and the generator kicks in?

 

[FlasherZ]

Saw your post. I am installing a Generac natural gas whole house generator. Did you ever find out the answer to your question as to wether you can charge your car during a power outage and the generator kicks in?

From my experience, it depends upon the quality of the generator. Generac makes several models, from the smallest air-cooled generators to larger units driven by automotive-style engines. The larger models tend to have better tolerances than the smaller models.

I have a Generac 25 kW unit with a 4-cylinder LP gas engine for my home; however, I don't have my car's charging circuits connected to the generator's panel. I figure that if something happens such that I am going to need a charge while the grid power is out, I can go with 12A/120V from the garage circuit. The car does charge from the generator.