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Hacked FSD Beta?

hamoneaster

Member
Jun 7, 2020
93
122
Kansas

How do I get thisss!!! Lol
 
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DaBagBoy

Member
Dec 3, 2018
41
28
Lansing, MI

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,188
4,169
mtn view, ca
a co-worker that was born in russia (who owns a model 3) told me that back home, if you took your tesla to some service center (not sure if the real one, is there even a real one there?) or some other shop, if you pay the right amount, you'll get all the software unlocked. I would not doubt it, either.
 

Dan D.

Member
Dec 7, 2020
785
980
Vancouver, BC
a co-worker that was born in russia (who owns a model 3) told me that back home, if you took your tesla to some service center (not sure if the real one, is there even a real one there?) or some other shop, if you pay the right amount, you'll get all the software unlocked. I would not doubt it, either.
Another reason to have geo-fenced FSD code. (Or do you think there is anyone actually hacking the code to remove such restrictions too?) Even if they have somehow fooled the car into getting the software do they have to remain off-line (and/or disable GPS) to stop Tesla from noticing?
 

helvio

E-TARDIS
Aug 11, 2020
498
712
Phoenixville, PA
Another reason to have geo-fenced FSD code. (Or do you think there is anyone actually hacking the code to remove such restrictions too?) Even if they have somehow fooled the car into getting the software do they have to remain off-line (and/or disable GPS) to stop Tesla from noticing?
I really don't think you should disable GPS when testing a hacked FSD hahaha
 
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gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,510
3,312
Seattle, WA
Another reason to have geo-fenced FSD code.
I really don't think you should disable GPS when testing a hacked FSD hahaha
So much for
High precision maps and lanes are a really bad idea ... any change and it can't adapt. -- Elon Musk
Personally, I'd really like to know my "FSD" is still safe if it loses GPS. Urban canyons, tunnels, GPS outages, spoofing, and hardware failures are a thing that the system needs to be robust and safe against.
 

Microterf

Member
Sep 18, 2020
393
623
Ohio
So much for

Personally, I'd really like to know my "FSD" is still safe if it loses GPS. Urban canyons, tunnels, GPS outages, spoofing, and hardware failures are a thing that the system needs to be robust and safe against.
GPS is needed for navigation though. Be kind of boring to not be able to tell the car where to try to go.
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,510
3,312
Seattle, WA
GPS is needed for navigation though. Be kind of boring to not be able to tell the car where to try to go.

Sure. Now I'm really interested with what happens with "FSD" beta if your GPS drops out. Or even if you cancel navigation. Does it revert to normal autosteer/TACC and just drive straight until the battery dies?
 

helvio

E-TARDIS
Aug 11, 2020
498
712
Phoenixville, PA
Sure. Now I'm really interested with what happens with "FSD" beta if your GPS drops out. Or even if you cancel navigation. Does it revert to normal autosteer/TACC and just drive straight until the battery dies?
There are techniques to cover for GPS. A couple of them are speed + direction, which should give you a very accurate positioning until GPS signal is back. A magnetometer works even underground, and speed... well, unless you're flying!? lol

I meant totally disabling GPS would cause the car to fully lose track of position. Not sporadic signal losses.

And all those techniques don't even rely on cameras + internet. It's already pretty seamless, but can get better. Like, an underground split using cameras as well as everything else to determine which exit you took in a tunnel and plot your path properly. This is me dreaming a bit, but magnetometer + speed is a reality.
 
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gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,510
3,312
Seattle, WA
A magnetometer works even underground
It very much does not in most tunnels with rebar, highways with rebar, bridges, or downtown environments with massive steel buildings. Or areas with iron deposits. Even airplanes have to be careful in flight near some areas of known magnetic disturbance (which are marked on maps).

I've designed magnetometers for airplanes professionally and it takes very little to throw them off, and dead reckoning with them even in the sky is very difficult (I know, this is me indicating my "opinion matters more than anyone else's"....). Airports have specific areas built to check compasses that don't have rebar in the surface.

Almost all systems that navigate during GPS denied times use accelerometers and gyros to dead reckon, not magnetometers. These all suffer from drift that limits the amount of time it can be used, and does not assist when you have parked in a parking garage for 8 hours, pull out into an urban canyon with massive multipath, and want to use AP to get home. They are useful for short tunnels, but even in that distance easily drift off 100+ feet, and Tesla's FSD relies on position more accurate than that.

And of course- it appears Teslas have a gyro/accelerometer (shared with stability control), but I don't think anyone has ever found a magnetometer in one.

But seriously- we're all cool with Tesla's "FSD" software being dangerous to use outside the USA, but them not having geofenced in the code at all? Why do we keep needing the user to obey Tesla's restrictions like USA only or no autosteer on city streets instead of their own code enforcing it?

I mean, the last time we discussed FSD and safety, this is what we had to say. So using FSD anywhere can't be unsafe (with or without GPS), right?
Tesla is NOT delivering something not safe. DRIVERS are opting it to TEST something that is not TESTED TO BE SAFE. FSD is not a product yet. We should have this conversation when it IS. Until then, I think we should disconnect FSD from safety.
 
Last edited:

helvio

E-TARDIS
Aug 11, 2020
498
712
Phoenixville, PA
It very much does not in most tunnels with rebar, highways with rebar, bridges, or downtown environments with massive steel buildings. Or areas with iron deposits. Even airplanes have to be careful in flight near some areas of known magnetic disturbance (which are marked on maps).

I've designed magnetometers for airplanes professionally and it takes very little to throw them off, and dead reckoning with them even in the sky is very difficult (I know, this is me indicating my "opinion matters more than anyone else's"....). Airports have specific areas built to check compasses that don't have rebar in the surface.

Almost all systems that navigate during GPS denied times use accelerometers and gyros to dead reckon, not magnetometers. These all suffer from drift that limits the amount of time it can be used, and does not assist when you have parked in a parking garage for 8 hours, pull out into an urban canyon with massive multipath, and want to use AP to get home. They are useful for short tunnels, but even in that distance easily drift off 100+ feet, and Tesla's FSD relies on position more accurate than that.

And of course- it appears Teslas have a gyro/accelerometer (shared with stability control), but I don't think anyone has ever found a magnetometer in one.

But seriously- we're all cool with Tesla's "FSD" software being dangerous to use outside the USA, but them not having geofenced in the code at all? Why do we keep needing the user to obey Tesla's restrictions like USA only or no autosteer on city streets instead of their own code enforcing it?

I mean, the last time we discussed FSD and safety, this is what we had to say. So using FSD anywhere can't be unsafe (with or without GPS), right?
I learned a bit about magnetometers. But still, I can think of multiple possible ways to detect direction/speed/distance without GPS, which is not to say we don't need GPS, but that we don't RELY on it 100% of the time. On top of that, TBC has it's own tunnels. Not sure if they're outfitted with something that helps the cars, but it shouldn't be extremely hard to outfit existing tunnels with similar technology.

On a different topic, why would they bother geofencing FSD? It's wasted effort. For all we know, it could have been geofenced, but defeated. That was the point in the first place, to use something that shouldn't yet be available.

Now, back on the original topic. GPS is needed, at least for a while, like you said. Hence, disabling GPS while using FSD (hacked or not) is very likely a bad idea, as it would (optimistically) make the car wander without a destination, while still properly navigating the driving space safely.

About my last quote - I stand by what I said. Not sure why it was brought up, though.
 

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