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Hacking the Model S for evil...

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Since the brakes are controlled by the ABS system and the steering has a strong electric motor attached, I think it is safe to say they are, directly or indirectly, under software control. The question is how is that software related to the software in computers more exposed to outside agents (either the end user, external networks or other interfaces).

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I strongly hope you getting the assessment and an issue appearing on the newspapers are not mutually exclusive or causally related - are you pitching your consulting services to Tesla to help them get this doc out? :)
I have a very good job (enough to pay for my model S and my upcoming X) and it's not in consulting, thank you. :)
 
Since the brakes are controlled by the ABS system and the steering has a strong electric motor attached, I think it is safe to say they are, directly or indirectly, under software control. :)

Just because you turn on/off traction control with a touch screen doesn't make it that much different than turning traction control on/off with a physical button. The end result is that an internal state is changed in the otherwise completely autonomous ABS subsystem. Worst case is that a hacker can turn on/off traction control or set the level of steering assist by putting the car into "sport" mode. That doesn't get them full control of the brakes or the steering.

How about this Audi video for direct control of a car!
 
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Just because you turn on/off traction control with a touch screen doesn't make it that much different than turning traction control on/off with a physical button. The end result is that an internal state is changed in the otherwise completely autonomous ABS subsystem. Worst case is that a hacker can turn on/off traction control or set the level of steering assist by putting the car into "sport" mode. That doesn't get them full control of the brakes or the steering.

How about this Audi video for direct control of a car!

And that is exactly the type of information I'm asking for!!! Is the ABS system under direct control of the UX computer or it just connected by a channel with a limited set values that can't be used to take control of the brakes? Same thing for steering and the drive motor, at least. If Tesla publishes info that shows those systems cannot be directly controlled even by a fully owned UX computer, then my main fears would be at ease. I wouldn't like a hacker taking control over my Tesla's central panel, but if all they can do is to play Justin Bieber over and over again, I think I can survive that.
 
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I'm still not understanding the motivation of these alleged black hat hackers. While there are plenty of examples of black hat attacks on various devices, I have yet to see a case where murder is the intent. As a software engineer myself, I certainly want to see security done well, but I fail to see the great looming danger of someone trying to kill you by controlling your car versus just being a poor driver.

Political assassinations! "Why, he just died in a car accident. How sad." Assassins love to have plausible deniability. There's a reason there's so many conspiracy theories about "small plane crashes". Yeah, this is a bit paranoid. But if you are the sort of politician, lawyer, or judge who gets death threats regularly and has been investigating powerful crime syndicates, maybe you want a more foolproof car. (I suggest a Model T Ford. :wink: ) I wouldn't suggest that any Heads of State drive unmodified Teslas. I don't expect it'll be an issue for people who aren't being individually targeted.
 

If it involves physical security compromise, it's a whole different type of "hacking"...
In one case, a pair of hackers manipulated two cars by plugging a laptop into a port beneath the dashboard where mechanics connect their computers to search for problems.

It's like saying "Look, I can make your browser do weird things.... after installing a custom browser application while you let me use your admin login session."
 
I do not understand why the OP would make this posting's title so... misleading???

Just because the Tesla model S is an 'electric car' that does not mean it is prone to being hacked when stacked against Audi, BMW or even Chevy!

To exemplify this... Chevy has 'onstar' remember that? They can access your car 24/7 to unlock, start the engine and even shut it off and much more without your request. I consider that to be dangerous and hacker worthy.. All newer vehicles are pretty much connected to the internet one way or the other. Each car has a battery... so just because a Model S is run by electricity or has a large screen - does not make it easier of being hacked.

Moreover, just because you could unlock your car from an app, does not mean that that other cars cannot do the same... Modern cars that encompass a Key Fob are evidently vulnerable.. If someone is close enough to you and knowledgeable, thy are able to sync frequencies and duplicate it without having your fob. Same with credit cards and the like.

Tesla also hired Kristin Paget - her job position is to hack the Model S and she does not do it for evil, but for the best of us all. :)

google search:

Kristin Paget (KristinPaget) on Twitter

https://twitter.com/KristinPaget

The latest from Kristin Paget (@KristinPaget). I hack things - electric cars, currently :). Oakland Hills, CA.
 
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You have to bear in mind that security analysts generally work for a company that sells security devices or software. Their basic job is to instill fear so that you will purchase their product.

I am a security analyst with a company that sells security devices. Myself, and most of the colleagues I work with, consider it our basic job to protect our customers networks and the information contained therein.

My basic job is to allay fear, by providing effective protection services, not instil it.

We don't feel the need to invent bad stuff, as there is enough bad stuff out there already.

We have no way of knowing what Mr Dhanjani's motives are, but I seriously doubt that he is trying to sell Tesla a security device or software.

<RANT>I never really understood where this idea that anti-virus companies are writing viruses, security companies are hyping threats, etc, comes from. We don't allege that policemen are creating crime to inflate the importance of their jobs, or that security guards are faking break-ins to instil fear, or that doctors create disease so they can stay in a job.</RANT>
 
<RANT>I never really understood where this idea that anti-virus companies are writing viruses, security companies are hyping threats, etc, comes from. We don't allege that policemen are creating crime to inflate the importance of their jobs, or that security guards are faking break-ins to instil fear, or that doctors create disease so they can stay in a job.</RANT>

It's a known effect in firefighting... here's one example (there are many more out there):
Volunteer Fire Articles
 
The original post by Nitesh Dhanjani was a reasonable assessment of Tesla REST API security:
Nitesh Dhanjani: Cursory Evaluation of the Tesla Model S: We Can't Protect Our Cars Like We Protect Our Workstations

How individual news sources interpret his blog post and sensationalize this is hardly his problem. Overall, I thought his analysis was generally sound and there is a need for Tesla to get to a "version 2" of their security model in the near future. The fact that there is no audit capability of which clients are viewing my account data is an additional concern - you don't even know what client software may be monitoring your account.

Tesla owner recommendations:
1. Pick a strong and unique password for your Tesla account. Unless you want people to have access to the inside of your car and know where it is at all times. :)
2. Do not use the password to access anything other than www.teslamotors.com and the official Tesla app. You simply can't know what any other site/app is doing with your password. A a result, you can't determine direct or indirect malicious usage.
3. Keep your email account that is associated with teslamotors.com secure (another unique password) since that's all that's needed for a password reset for #1 and then #2.

I know #2 sounds strong and there are some very legitimate sounding people on the forums that I'm 99.99% certain are legit. But I certainly won't be sharing my Tesla password with anyone other than Tesla Motors systems. (For the developers out there, getting/writing code for direct REST API access is obviously safe too.)

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[Mod note - this thread would seem better suited for the user interface forum, where all the other application discussions is located. You can delete this comment once reviewed.]
 
Looks like you guys aren't the only ones sniffing the Ethernet port..

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...d-unlocked-and-burglarized-with-a-simple-hack

I just hardened my password.. might not use Visible Tesla either until something is done to improve the way it gains access.

Am I paranoid?

My house is protected by single factor authentication too. It's called a key. It can be easily broken and my belongings can be stolen.

Don't be paranoid. Anyone with a rock can steal the stuff in your parked car. Don't leave important stuff in your car.
 
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Looks like you guys aren't the only ones sniffing the Ethernet port..

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...d-unlocked-and-burglarized-with-a-simple-hack

I just hardened my password.. might not use Visible Tesla either until something is done to improve the way it gains access.

Am I paranoid?

That doesn't have anything to do with the ethernet connection. And it's a non-story, anyway. Every Model S owner already knows that you can unlock the car with the mobile app and your password.

Edit: Actually, he does talk about the ethernet later in the story, but that's not the "vulnerability" that he's talking about. But, yeah, seems like he's just lifting all his research from this forum.