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Handling: prepare to be surprised

Discussion in 'Roadster 2020' started by KarenRei, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    I've been thinking a bit about the Roadster. There seems to be a general consensus that the handling on it will be poor. After all, there's a more-than-a-tonne battery pack in that floor! While it's clear Tesla will do everything they can to keep it light (after all, the pack costs less than an order of magnitude of the car's price!), there's no getting around the weight.

    But when it comes to handling, I think one thing has been unfairly overlooked, which has the potential to make this car handle like nothing ever before: torque steer.

    The rear wheels are, of course, each driven by their own motor, and the car can be steered by differential torque applied to each of them - even one wheel accelerating at max power while the other attempts to reverse at max power. All of this force will be applied to very sticky tires. Computer-assisted J turns, drift control, etc? Oh, you better bet that this car is going to handle them with almost unreal agility, with enough lateral force to be almost painful if you (and Tesla) wants to let the car do it.

    Better have good side support in the seats ;)

    Nothing is going to make this car feel "light" (although Tesla will certainly do everything to keep the weight down). But in other ways, the handling on this vehicle - assuming that Tesla handles the implementation well - is going to be amazing.
     
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  2. CarlK

    CarlK Member

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    I hope you're right and I think you probably are. The weight at about 4000 lb is on the same level as Lamborghini Aventador sv or GT-R. No one has accused those cars do not have superior handling not to mention the Roadster with all those weighs down very low is one better than them. Even the weight distrition is better. You can't beat the car that has weight evenly distributed between axels with those with big chunks of weight near the front or the rear.

    Those motors as you mentioned is a big factors of course. Elon indeed has mention torque vectoring will be used. Some cars have that too but you can never achieve what comes with individually controlled motors with mechanical differential or brakes.
     
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  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see that as a “general consensus” on TMC.

    Agree that torque steer will certainly be employed and the results may well be remarkable, especially given the ability to control the electric drivetrain at the millisecond level.

    And as @CarlK notes, the low CG will certainly give the Roadster an edge over its ICE competitors.
     
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  4. Gen3

    Gen3 Member

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    I'd like to see the roadster sport with quad motors, and the ability to spin in place. Pirouette mode?
     
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  5. unbelievable

    unbelievable Member

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    I’ll vote for that. It got to be easier than this. :)

     
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  6. powertoold

    powertoold Member

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    SmartSelectGIF_2017-11-17-08-43-57.gif
     
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  7. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Watching that clip really does not get old..
     
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  8. 3s-a-charm

    3s-a-charm Active Member

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    For a second there I thought you wrote "I'd like to see the roadster sport with quad exhaust..." :confused::)
     
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  9. Gra55h0pper

    Gra55h0pper Member

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    I think you’re absolutely right. Torque steering is going to make a huge difference. Thanks for alleviating some of my concerns on handling. Now I want the car even more! Is it done yet? Is it done yet?

    Is it done yet? :)
     
  10. Britannia

    Britannia Member

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    I full heartedly agree. Ugh, this wait is going to be unbearable. My husband has been talking about the things he wants for Christmas and my gift is three years away- at minimum.
     
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  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Careful, you are going to start getting marriage proposals from strange men who want you to leave your husband...;)
     
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  12. Britannia

    Britannia Member

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    Well unless they are contributing to the Roadster fund, I think they will have a hard time. Can't beat a man who enables my Tesla addiction and doesn't like to drive (more car time for me).
     
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  13. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    What would be very interesting would be an active suspension. With low unsprung weight ratio, lots of sensors, plenty of compute power, and ample electric current available, the Roadster might be a very good candidate.
     
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  14. Xminus6

    Xminus6 Member

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    The phrase for using differential torque to change the direction of a car is called Torque Vectoring. There are various version of Torque Vectoring available on cars today. The first I was aware of was Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel Drive. But there are others out there now too.

    Torque steer or torque steering is a term that describes the unwanted effect of the front tires of a front-drive car being pulled off center by the torque of the wheels. Just an FYI.
     
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  15. wolv

    wolv New Member

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    Any idea of cost and durability of tires than enable 250+ MPH plus sticky traction for good handling? Different tire options for those of us who will not be exceeding 100 MPH (too many deer!) but still enjoy smoking our Porsche buddies from 0 to 60?
     
  16. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

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    In the prototype, it is the same tire setup as the Porsche 918 spyder, 325/30/21 in the rear, 265/35/20 in the front. The prototype had Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's which for the set is roughly $2000 with treadwear rating of 180. To get the published acceleration numbers you're going to need all the traction you can get, which the Sport Cup 2's are quite sticky assuming it's not too cold. But the Sport Cups 2 have tread depth shaved shallower than normal tires, so you won't get as much mileage out of them.

    You could go with Michelin Pilot Super Sports which is probably 30% cheaper with treadwear rating of 300 since it has a more normal/ deeper tread depth.
     
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  17. rajram

    rajram Member

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    Chassis tuning, specifically suspension setup, plays a major role in handling and is one area that hasn't been discussed on the new Roadster, probably because there is little to no additional information. The air suspension on current Teslas is a good compromise between ride comfort and handling, but is simply too soft to enable high cornering limits. The Roadster will need to generate north of 1.1g in lateral grip as tested on a 300 ft. diameter skidpad to vie with today's top supercars; by comparison, the Model S P100DL on 21" Arachnids wrapped in MPSS rubber achieved 0.89g in MT's testing, which falls short of the top German sport saloons that flirt with the 1.0g territory. Having put a Model S through its paces, I can say that understeer is the car's overwhelming handling character; torque vectoring with independent motors on each rear wheel will definitely help with rotation but managing the inherent understeer by enhancing front-end grip will be the ticket to achieving supercar handling. It will be interesting to see how Tesla solves for this on the Roadster, especially if they retain the air suspension and do not compromise ride quality significantly.
     
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  18. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    And people bitch about tire wear on the P85+ :eek:

    (as someone who's burned though a few set of the original Sport Cups on the track, I can tell you that's not a really practical street setup...)
     
  19. Peteski

    Peteski Member

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    This is basically my take on it too. Torque vectoring could be fun, but ultimately it needs tyre grip with top quality suspension geometry, installation stiffness and setup. Can it all be achieved with the weight of a 200 kWh battery without compromise? I'm not convinced, but will be interesting to see how it stacks up on track. I'd like to know what this thing actually weighs.
     
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  20. jerry505

    jerry505 Member

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    I put down a 50K deposit, but I will cancel if the new Roadster proves not to be a good car. For example, the old Roadster wears out tires rapidly, which is a big turn off to me. I think battery advances in the new Roadster could hold down weight and stretch tire life to decent numbers, but 5,000 would take the fun out of driving.
     

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