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Handling S Long Range v Plaid

Much appreciate the feedback. If I went with the LR, is it worth it to upgrade to the 21” tires?

Good question - I also have this dilemma.

On the one hand, I want the UHP tires that come with the 21" wheels, and I think the Arachnid wheels look great, filling out the fender wells perfectly.

OTOH, it's true that the Arachnid wheels are heavier and possibly more fragile than some of the available aftermarket options.

My order includes 21s, but if a car that matches my spec but with 19s shows up, I might take it instead. While I don't like the aero wheel covers on the19s, the wheel underneath those covers isn't bad looking at all IMHO.
 
While the advertised range of the Taycan is low, the real world range is significantly higher.

Tesla is the opposite. High rated range and substantially lower real world range.

That said, there is no material difference in handling between the LR and Plaid.
I have a Plaid and my range is easily with expections of advetized. I consistently get 388-390 miles at 100%. 310-315 at 80%. Most others I've seen have similar results. Pretty sure the track mode (not included in a LR) will make a huge difference in handling. Not as much as after market brake and suspension upgrades. I've not tested the 0-60 nor tracked it to evaluate performance.
 

glide

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I have a Plaid and my range is easily with expections of advetized. I consistently get 388-390 miles at 100%. 310-315 at 80%. Most others I've seen have similar results. Pretty sure the track mode (not included in a LR) will make a huge difference in handling. Not as much as after market brake and suspension upgrades. I've not tested the 0-60 nor tracked it to evaluate performance.
Tesla estimates their range based on perfect conditions and battery temp. Weather, elevation, and driving speeds above 60mph will kill range.

Porsche does not base their estimates on the same set of “optimal” conditions. Hence the disparity. With a Porsche, someone with your driving habits would get well over the rated range.
 
Tesla estimates their range based on perfect conditions and battery temp. Weather, elevation, and driving speeds above 60mph will kill range.

Porsche does not base their estimates on the same set of “optimal” conditions. Hence the disparity. With a Porsche, someone with your driving habits would get well over the rated range.

The reality is that Tesla uses one of the EPA-approved test procedures, while Porsche uses the other EPA-approved test procedure. Porsche also chose to unilaterally reduce the official EPA range, which is their prerogative and also meets EPA rules.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA test procedure for EVs-Phevs-7-5-2012.pdf

The real question is why there are 2 EPA-approved test procedures that produce such different results!
 
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2101Guy

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Much appreciate the feedback. If I went with the LR, is it worth it to upgrade to the 21” tires?
Absolutely not. The previous version of the model S was offered with 21" wheels that were forged. (much lighter and MUCH stronger than cast). The current version of the model S has 21" wheels as the option that are CAST. Not strong/not light/cheaper to make.

The better "value"? Get the base 19" wheels/tires. Spend less than $4500 on aftermarket 21" wheel/tire combo that is cast and have two sets of wheels /tires (or sell the 19" wheel/tires to someone to offset your aftermarket wheel purchase) or spend a bit more and get fully forged 21" wheels, and still have the 19" set for sale or to keep
 

2101Guy

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I think the Plaid is MUCH more resistant to performance degradation wrt to state of charge than the Y is.
Correct, as is the Long Range. Upgraded software/battery mgmt technology eliminates that power drop off at higher speeds and greatly reduces the drop off in power output at lower states of charge. 2 things that were present in the pre-refresh MOdel S
 
I have a Plaid and my range is easily with expections of advetized. "I consistently get 388-390 miles at 100%. 310-315 at 80%". Most others I've seen have similar results.
Im sorry, but I have to call BS on this. Nobody "consistently" gets full rated range from a Tesla.

So to clarify, are you saying that when you charge your car to 100% it shows you have 388-390 miles (and @80% 310-315)? Or are trying to tell us you actually get, during real world driving 388-390 miles per charge? Because the latter does not happen for anyone (consistently).
 
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Well, this is very easy to settle by just comparing real world energy consumptions vs EPA ratings. EPA rating says MSLR combined energy consumption is 280wh/mi (Plaid 19 is 290, Plaid 21 is 330). My car is currently siting below 270wh/mi for its first 1k mi, so I won’t call Tesla lying.
 

DayTrippin

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To be fair, energy consumption has a lot of variables. I use TeslaFi and the insight is very useful for me.

For my 3 LR (with boost, on 18's), I am getting 87% (252 Wh/mi) of its rated efficiency per TeslaFi. For my S LR (on 19's), I am getting 83% (264 Wh/mi). For the S that includes some pretty high speed runs. For the 3, not really high speeds but a fair amount of enjoying the acceleration in the 30-80mph range. Both are far better than my Y LR (with boost) was.

I have noticed with my S that I can get pretty close to the rated range at 70 mph without much issue.
 
Im sorry, but I have to call BS on this. Nobody "consistently" gets full rated range from a Tesla.

So to clarify, are you saying that when you charge your car to 100% it shows you have 388-390 miles (and @80% 310-315)? Or are trying to tell us you actually get, during real world driving 388-390 miles per charge? Because the latter does not happen for anyone (consistently).
Yes I am only going on my charge reading every morning or after charging to 100% Don't know of many that actually correlate actual vs charged indication. Telsa claimed I should have been able to charge to 394 or so and I charge to 388-390.

Are you saying that I am actually not getting anywhere near what my display is saying? I don't worry about tracking actual vs Tesla indication. Seems crazy if you're using Tesla's diplays info for any comparison. Of course you could use an external gps to compare. Way beyond my interest. By law Tesla's speedometer has to be accurate as far as miles traveled. I don't think I'm getting drastically different milage after charging and I'm not worried enough to spend time with comparing. This is my third MS and understand how temp, altitude changes, wind, etc. affect actually milage. But in normal day to day driving I just don't see anything to cause me to question how far I can go on any charge.

I do admit being obsessive enough to track my ICE car gas milage. Drove the wife mad as I posted each fill up in a notepad. I did it to monitor the engine A dramatic drop in milage would tell me something was wrong. I knew how much it would drop if I was towing or on the highway.

Probably should consider doing something like this on the Tesla. I do have more notepads!
 
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DayTrippin

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The little display with either DTE range (distance to empty or 0% if you prefer) or % charge remaining at the top of the screen can't be typically believed with respect to your remaining distance.

I find the energy screen much more accurate for real-time estimates of my range at a given speed. It will also tell you pretty accurately what your state of charge will be when you get to your destination with pretty good precision.
 
I have a 2021 MS LR. When there's nobody around (so I don't kill anyone), I'm an aggressive driver. 10+ years ago, I used to track so I have some "intermediate" high performance driving experience. MS LR is a great handling car. Yoke is annoying on canyon roads. If you need to go from WOT (wide open throttle) to hard brake, the brakes are noticeably underwhelming. Give yourself ample space to brake when you WOT.

I don't have a basis of comparison with Plaid. I changed my tires from OEM PZeros to OEM Conti All Seasons. There's decreased traction (and increased wheel spin on WOT) but it makes me more confident when I drive in 30-40F late night.

IMHO, biggest thing an average person can do for "handling" is tires. In your case, just keep the PZeros as it's slim picking for tires rated for MS weight.
 
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Hayseed_MS

Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
Jan 19, 2021
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Much appreciate the feedback. If I went with the LR, is it worth it to upgrade to the 21” tires?

Absolutely not. The previous version of the model S was offered with 21" wheels that were forged. (much lighter and MUCH stronger than cast). The current version of the model S has 21" wheels as the option that are CAST. Not strong/not light/cheaper to make.

The better "value"? Get the base 19" wheels/tires. Spend less than $4500 on aftermarket 21" wheel/tire combo that is cast and have two sets of wheels /tires (or sell the 19" wheel/tires to someone to offset your aftermarket wheel purchase) or spend a bit more and get fully forged 21" wheels, and still have the 19" set for sale or to keep

Worth is your definition. You will not go wrong with the OEM 21 but is it worth $4500 - 🤷‍♂️ @2101Guy has a good idea on taking the 19" and then buying aftermarket (or used OEM) 21's if there are ones out there you like the looks of better than the OEM.

For me, the 21's are great. Mine came with 21, then I switched to 20 (285/35r20 square) all season pilot 4. I am getting a more smooth ride, more quiet ride, and better range with the OEM combo.

I had the 21" on for 15k miles, the 20" for 17k miles, and back to the 21 for the last 2k miles. The noise went down considerably. It takes bumps much smoother. My range went up - these tires/wheels are more aero and have less rolling resistance.

@2101Guy is right in what he says about the forged being lighter and stronger than the cast OEM. He is wrong in saying the OEM are not strong. They are not as strong as the forged but they are plenty strong for the current S. But the current cast 21's will not be broken like the previous generations of 21's - cast wheels are very strong if designed correctly. Mine have been around and in deep pot holes - no bends, cracks, or dents. The only blemish is when the tire guy dropped it on a metal rack and took a small chip of paint.

The suspension was engineered for the weight of this combo - it was designed to handle the cast wheel.

For my driving, the forged wheels do not offer much benefit for the cost. I like the looks of the 21" OEM over the19 or aftermarket. I am in the minority here but I like my cars to look "factory" and not aftermarket/modified. With all that being said, I may still go to the Martian forged 20" with the Pilot 4S later to see how it does.
 
Good question - I also have this dilemma.

On the one hand, I want the UHP tires that come with the 21" wheels, and I think the Arachnid wheels look great, filling out the fender wells perfectly.

OTOH, it's true that the Arachnid wheels are heavier and possibly more fragile than some of the available aftermarket options.

My order includes 21s, but if a car that matches my spec but with 19s shows up, I might take it instead. While I don't like the aero wheel covers on the19s, the wheel underneath those covers isn't bad looking at all IMHO.
I realize Tesla may deliver with 2 different tire options on the 19" stock setup. Mine did come with the UHP Perrelli P-zero summer tires on it with the 19" stock option. These to be exact. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P+Zero+(PZ4)&frontTire=545YR9PZ4XLNCSV2&rearTire=84YR9PZ4XLNCSV2&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Tesla&autoYear=2022&autoModel=Model S&autoModClar=255/45-19F 285/40-19R As for the Aero cover, I too thought they were ugly however after actually using them and seeing what a breeze it is to keep clean and wash compared to open wheels I am sticking with them not to mention you get a few more miles to the electron with them on.
 
Im sorry, but I have to call BS on this. Nobody "consistently" gets full rated range from a Tesla.

So to clarify, are you saying that when you charge your car to 100% it shows you have 388-390 miles (and @80% 310-315)? Or are trying to tell us you actually get, during real world driving 388-390 miles per charge? Because the latter does not happen for anyone (consistently).
I have to agree here and even my wife noticed how off the range is compared to what the display says. I charge to 90% and the display shows 354 miles but in normal non aggressive driving I get about 60% of that.
 

tm1v2

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Oct 18, 2021
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In the Model 3, Track Mode is essential for putting power down coming out of turns, or reliably using all available grip in a turn, or getting wheelspin and sliding the car when you want.

And the M3P doesn't even have the S Plaid's torque vectoring or active suspension for Track Mode to reprogram.

I haven't had a chance to drive a Palladium S yet, but I imagine the nannies have similar programming and thresholds. I've seen some review videos saying as much.

If you just want to smash the Go pedal in a straight line, you don't need Track Mode, it's useless for that. However if you like to tear up twisty roads, high speed corners, and/or chase snowstorms...you might really appreciate having Track Mode. I consider it absolutely essential to my full enjoyment of my M3P. I'd probably feel the same way with a Palladium S.
 

DayTrippin

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If you get it wrong (track mode settings) there would be the potential for a lot more mayhem than in the M3P. About 700HP in the LR means it really helps to have the car pointed straight to get all the power to the ground. The extra 300 HP of the Plaid would ensure that I am very cautious when trying to dial in the track mode if I had one.
 
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I still think there has to be some difference in feel with the LR being 205lbs lighter. Both the braking and nimbleness/handling has to be a little better...it's just physics. If you look at where the weight is on the Plaid it is right near the rear axle area, and the two motors back there actually go past the rear axle. In the LR the motor is in front of the axle. I would think the LR is probably likely more 50/50, where the Plaid may be a little rear weight bias.

I know there is track mode and torque vectoring in the Plaid so yeah the Plaid may pull better numbers on the corners, not sure. But the nimbleness feel and braking has to go to the LR.

We should all be happy, both of these cars are 200-300lbs lighter than the older versions :)
 
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