Happy Birthday AP 2.0

[Joe F]

Well, that is your interpretation and you are welcome to it. The way I see it, it is pretty realistic user/owner feedback and holding Tesla accountable to their promises in the public.

IMO it's not realistic at all. It's constant, relentless, and borders on obsession. To what end? Surly you don't believe Tesla looks to TMC to see how some here feel about Tesla. So one has to question who your audience is.

It's like that little child in the supermarket having a fit because his mother refused to buy something that he wanted, and his constant whining is so irritating you forgo that isle and move to another, only to see the mom with said child rounding the corner, heading right for you. Everywhere. You. Go. Amazing how she isn't flustered by his foot stomping, yet other shoppers just want get out of the store without incident. Not suggesting you whine, but the results are the same WRT the effect.

I did read the entire thread you have in your sig. Thank you for pointing me to it. Okay, I get it: You were less negative in the past, but appear to have become jaded after receiving your MX, since the EAP features have not materialized in their entirety to date.

All AP2 owners are in the same boat, and probably share some of the same feelings as you. What good would it do to point it out, ad nauseam?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here's a key to my thinking:

1) I think Model 3 will succeed (despite expected delays and issues that are consistent with Tesla's past ramp-up issues, AP2 issues etc.), I've been consistently saying this

2) I think Tesla's Autopilot/FSD will eventually work or at least has a very good chance at succeeding, at least in good weather - probably not the AP2 hardware in my car, but I expect they will "get there" in some manner

However, I have also come to the conclusion that Tesla deserves being called out on a lot of stuff that they shouldn't really attempt to pull again. I am by no means the most brutal in my views on this, but I am critical of course.

As a secondary thing I also wonder about the practicality of the suite as it stands. I would expect non-visual redundancy to be added (e.g. corner radars) or more cameras or camera cleaning apparatus etc.

It's like that little child in the supermarket having a fit because his mother refused to buy something that he wanted, and his constant whining is so irritating you forgo that isle and move to another, only to see the mom with said child rounding the corner, heading right for you. Everywhere. You. Go. Amazing how she isn't flustered by his foot stomping, yet other shoppers just want get out of the store without incident. Not suggesting you whine, but the results are the same WRT the effect.

We are all free to our opinions. I for one think missing the mark as Tesla did, naturally results in a lot of pushback. I may be vocal, but in the end I'm pretty mild compared to some of the opinions on this.

All AP2 owners are in the same boat, and probably share some of the same feelings as you. What good would it do to point it out, ad nauseam?

One good thing IMO is that if/when Tesla learns that their customer base does offer pushback when something bad happens, it will steer them into better policies and decisions in the future. I would expect the Model 3 crowd to be even less forgiving than a technical or environmental enthusiast crowd that still predominantly buys the Model S/X.

I find this also intellectually stimulating conversation. Pondering the tehcnologies, the business, the policies, the ethics etc... I find it interesting.

 

[NerdUno]

IMO it's not realistic at all. It's constant, relentless, and borders on obsession. To what end? Surly you don't believe Tesla looks to TMC to see how some here feel about Tesla. So one has to question who your audience is.

It's like that little child in the supermarket having a fit because his mother refused to buy something that he wanted, and his constant whining is so irritating you forgo that isle and move to another, only to see the mom with said child rounding the corner, heading right for you. Everywhere. You. Go. Amazing how she isn't flustered by his foot stomping, yet other shoppers just want get out of the store without incident. Not suggesting you whine, but the results are the same WRT the effect.

I did read the entire thread you have in your sig. Thank you for pointing me to it. Okay, I get it: You were less negative in the past, but appear to have become jaded after receiving your MX, since the EAP features have not materialized in their entirety to date.

All AP2 owners are in the same boat, and probably share some of the same feelings as you. What good would it do to point it out, ad nauseam?

If you find this forum so nauseating, why do you keep posting? Just move on. Some of us actually like the discussion, and many have learned volumes about the safe operation of their AP2 vehicles by reading threads just like this one.

As for your supermarket analogy, you've got it exactly backwards. Rather than being the whiny children that wanted something mommy wouldn't buy, we're pissed off because many of us actually bought something that Tesla promised to deliver... and didn't, hasn't, and maybe won't.

 

[buttershrimp]

If you find this forum so nauseating, why do you keep posting? Just move on. Some of us actually like the discussion, and many have learned volumes about the safe operation of their AP2 vehicles by reading threads just like this one.

As for your supermarket analogy, you've got it exactly backwards. Rather than being the whiny children that wanted something mommy wouldn't buy, we're pissed off because many of us actually bought something that Tesla promised to deliver... and didn't, hasn't, and maybe won't.

I don't know why I'm so drawn to the paradox of anxiety ranger on TMC. He's a riddle, an enigma, a quagmire of conundrum.... But his statement rings very true when he said, "I find this also intellectually stimulating conversation. Pondering the tehcnologies, the business, the policies, the ethics etc..."

Even as a self-proclaimed Tesla lover, even I get the angst that goes with waiting and I understand the folks who feel annoyed with the hasty comments that Elon made regarding timelines... so I get why folks on the thread comes to Anxiety Ranger's defense.

heck, I even find him more balanced now than previously, maybe it's my Jeremy Clarkson-esque humor that has softened him....

Sure, I'd wish he'd learn to laugh at himself more, but hey, I'm sure he wishes I wasn't so damn funny all the time.

My gripe with him is that he says he is scientific and logical, and despite this, I find it fascinating that he still casually hopes an unreleased, unproven I-Pace, captures his inner optimist.... that's just absurd in my opinion but se la vie

I don't think @AnxietyRanger is a whining child in the supermarket... that's not fair... however, my interactions with him remind me of this clip with emma watson see if you can spot him

 

[AnxietyRanger]

A nice post @buttershrimp, no complaints. I think you're just getting to know me a bit...

My gripe with him is that he says he is scientific and logical, and despite this, I find it fascinating that he still casually hopes an unreleased, unproven I-Pace, captures his inner optimist.... that's just absurd in my opinion but se la vie

That is a perfectly fair note. The I-Pace angle comes with a dose of optimism attached. That actually comes naturally to me, I usually start by attaching a lot of optimism on interesting technologies, products and companies. I did so in 2014 regarding Tesla too.

The first big eye-opener was how the Model X wait, ramp-up and rumor-mill operated through 2014-2016. That really opened my eyes on how Tesla tends to do things - not jut that things are hard, I get that, but how they also tend to obfuscate the fact that things are hard to keep the optimistic momentum going... AP2, of course, was on a completely different level still.

So, yeah, I do think Tesla deserves a lot of my optimism yanked away from them. Jaguar is yet to deserve the same personally. Maybe I will be proven naive on them, but I like to start out that way. That said, even I don't think I-Pace will be available in big numbers. It is perfectly possible it becomes a bit of an unicorn - hard to buy. (And even then it is quite possible I won't rush to get anything, as this is a replacement for a second car idea, if it feels difficult to operate two BEVs for my needs...)

For once I'm just happy I'm not buying anything right this minute. Model X left me exhausted.

 

[Joe F]

I don't think @AnxietyRanger is a whining child in the supermarket... that's not fair...

No, nor was that my intent. Apologies to all especially @AnxietyRanger if that's how it was perceived. I can see now how a cursory read of the analogy could have given that impression. It was an expression of the feeling I get from an annoyance. I even said " Not suggesting you whine, but the results are the same WRT the effect."

I'd still like to hear the answer to "to what end?"...

Do we as owners on TMC need an almost constant reminder that we bought into the initial hype? Not being masochistic, I don't. Being here to learn and help others learn and share in the comradery of the pure pleasure of driving a Tesla. The car still instills a sense of exhilaration, far beyond any I've ever owned. The Tesla vision is still alive, even though tarnished by their unfortunate slow start.

I've had my share of complaining in the early days of AP2 activation. It's wasn't fun having the car slam on the brakes at highway speeds for no real reason, not to mention the unreliable AS issues, of which there were many. But with .42, Tesla has made more progress in a shorter amount of time than with AP1, despite the advantage of Mobileye. For the first time, I feel the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train.

Personally, I feel some of the things brought up are not important, certainly not enough to complain about. The IC doesn't show trucks as trucks? Huh? My eyes still work. What difference, really, does it make? Do people drive fixated on the IC, or the road? It's kind of petty, actually, IMHO. While it would be ideal if adjacent lanes showed blind spot vehicles, but I have mirrors and eyes. I've learned over 50 years of driving how to use them. It's important for auto lane change, when that's turned on, but to me, now, not so much.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Joe F Not unreasonable thoughts there. Frankly, I'm not interested in wallowing in it either, nor going through pointless debate after another - I have more and more noted areas that are better left be (that was the "erring bias" I discussed with @stopcrazypp and quoted recently). Some disagreements indeed are better left to silent agree to disagree.

But the thing is, there is no end. I think myself like @oktane etc. are just telling it like we feel. Saying something else would be holding back how we feel. I'm happy that you are exhilarated, I guess the point is, we're not. About this particular topic anyway.

I look forward to the day when AP2 exhilarates me. The .36 road trip was already nice, l hope it is a start of something. I look forward to the next trip somewhere and will report back.

As for AP1 parity, traffic sign recognition I would really like to have. Car identification is more about principle - Tesla should deliver on their promises...

 

[Joe F]

@Joe F But the thing is, there is no end. I think myself like @oktane etc. are just telling it like we feel. Saying something else would be holding back how we feel. I'm happy that you are exhilarated, I guess the point is, we're not. About this particular topic anyway.

Yes, because the world needs constant reminder you're not happy with Tesla. And since those feelings expressed on TMC do not influence Tesla, it appears to have an ulterior motive in that it's feels to be a thinly veiled attempt to influence potential future owners. Noted.

I look forward to the day when AP2 exhilarates me. The .36 road trip was already nice, l hope it is a start of something. I look forward to the next trip somewhere and will report back.

Nice? I had a dog once that I loved. Mans best friend and all that. Can't imagine ever saying "eh, yeah, he was nice."

As for AP1 parity, traffic sign recognition I would really like to have. Car identification is more about principle - Tesla should deliver on their promises...

I don't know where you live, but in the US, divided highways, which is what Tesla EAP is designed to be used on, do not have stop signs. If you believe Tesla promised you it would display stop signs as being an important feature you look forward to, good luck with that. Even if it will, as it apparently did briefly in an early AP2 release, it's not going to stop at it in the currently defined specification of AP2 EAP. That will be a FSD feature, if and when it becomes available.

 

[Matias]

Alas, I clearly haven't been posting the EAP image enough. Lesson learned.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yes, because the world needs constant reminder you're not happy with Tesla.

Or maybe it is we (likes of me and @oktane) that just need to vent...

And since those feelings expressed on TMC do not influence Tesla,

We know Tesla reads. I hope they listen.

, it appears to have an ulterior motive in that it's feels to be a thinly veiled attempt to influence potential future owners.

I'm in a bit too specialist threads to get the ear of new owners. Of course it would be nice if my thoughts resonate with some readers. Who doesn't want that?

Nice? I had a dog once that I loved. Mans best friend and all that. Can't imagine ever saying "eh, yeah, he was nice."

What? Are you comparing AP2 .36 to your dog? As said, AP2 .36 was already nice on my recent road trip.

I don't know where you live, but in the US, divided highways, which is what Tesla EAP is designed to be used on, do not have stop signs. If you believe Tesla promised you it would display stop signs as being an important feature you look forward to, good luck with that. Even if it will, as it apparently did briefly in an early AP2 release, it's not going to stop at it in the currently defined specification of AP2 EAP. That will be a FSD feature, if and when it becomes available.

I would like speed sign detection. That would be useful on all roads. The database is not very accurate where I live (the old AP2 database was better than the new one though).

 

[Joe F]

Or maybe it is we (likes of me and @oktane) that just need to vent...

I fear for your health. Get over it. Life moves on. Those who live in the past will be resigned to live in it forever.

We know Tesla reads. I hope they listen.

Oh, I'm sure they're listening to you with rapt attention.

What? Are you comparing AP2 .36 to your dog? As said, AP2 .36 was already nice on my recent road trip.

I credit you with a higher reading comprehension than that. Maybe it's a cultural difference.. I often tune in to the BBC, and frankly have to question where some commoners learned to speak English.

I would like speed sign detection. That would be useful on all roads. The database is not very accurate where I live (the old AP2 database was better than the new one though).

Ah, sorry I misread traffic sign as stop sign. Agreed, speed limit sign rather than a crappy DB of often incorrect speed limits is highly desirable. Will have to work on my reading comprehension, too.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Frankly @Joe F, there is probably no clear reason why any of us posts here, beyond gravitating towards something we vaguely like. Is there such clear reason to anything in life? I am a sucker for good conversation, for debate, which most of the time transforms into being suckered into bad debates.

I, really seriously, don't feel as bad about AP2 as you might think I do. There is no rage or emotional negativity of any kind these days, mostly that flares up in the heat of a debate gone bad if anywhere. But I do hold strong(ish) opinions about it and find discussing those opinions interesting. Yes, of course I would like Tesla to improve its ways, and of course I would like that my views would be heard by others (agree or not), but there is no singular pressing reason for it... It is a pastime, really, is the best description I can find for it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I actually consider a few folks on TMC friends. Online friends, but still. So it is overall an emotionally positive exchange.

We'll have better time together if and when EAP+FSD really makes it.

 

[BigD0g]

I actually consider a few folks on TMC friends. Online friends, but still. So it is overall an emotionally positive exchange.

We'll have better time together if and when EAP+FSD really makes it.

3 months maybe, six months definitely!

 

[BigD0g]

BTW, do we think Elon officially gets ready for the egg on his face with today's earning's call? Surely someone is going to ask about the coast to coast demo and not just m3 crap.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

BTW, do we think Elon officially gets ready for the egg on his face with today's earning's call? Surely someone is going to ask about the coast to coast demo and not just m3 crap.

I actually think they'll make the coast-to-coast. In Q4-Q1.

I've learned nothing, so that's what I actually find more likely than not.

 

[lunitiks]

BTW, do we think Elon officially gets ready for the egg on his face with today's earning's call? Surely someone is going to ask about the coast to coast demo and not just m3 crap.

He should be

 

[BigD0g]

From the earnings report:

We continue to update our Autopilot software and recently made significant improvements to the Autosteer function. The Tesla AI team, which is fundamental to achieving full autonomy, strengthened dramatically this year, with a number of the world’s best AI engineers and researchers joining our company. We plan to continue building Tesla AI until it is one of the best teams in the world, not just in automotive, where Tesla is already the leader, but across all industries. This applies to both software and hardware. Now that the foundation of the Tesla vision neural net is right, which was an exceptionally difficult problem, as it must fit into far less computing power than is typically used, we expect a rapid rollout of additional functionality over the

and 222 m3's delivered.

http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...3-7EC4E06DF840/TSLA_Update_Letter_2017-3Q.pdf

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Perhaps my intuition about the coast-to-coast happening was not so bad after all.

 

[lunitiks]

and 222 m3's delivered

what. the. fog. Something's not right.